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  1. #21
    Senior Member LeafAndSky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Sorry about my outbursts lately, I've been going through a 2 week emotional breakdown that is coming to a head.
    Do you feel you have the support you need to get through it and learn from it?

  2. #22
    Senior Member LeafAndSky's Avatar
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    Ah, I see you have someone arriving. Can't keep up sometimes (often!) . . . posts fly by too fast.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeafAndSky View Post
    Do you feel you have the support you need to get through it and learn from it?
    Well I won't go down without a fight...

    I know that much.

  4. #24

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    Wow. I didn't check this thread for a couple days because I thought it was dead, and I come to see many answers.

    Thanks for the responses. It'll take me a while to go through them. If I don't respond to your particular post, it doesn't mean anything. I may just not have had a response.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I have noticed that some people, like Athenian and me, base their self-worth on finding something particular of value in themselves. This often results in low self-esteem. It does for me.

    Others, on the other hand believe they have self-worth no matter what.

    How would you convince someone who believes in contingent self-worth to change his/her mind?

    In particular, please try to convince me that self-worth is not contingent on finding something particular of value in myself.
    I've noticed other's seem to focus on achievements a lot more than ENFPs, so I'm not sure my philosophies can apply to you. But I'll give you an account anyway.

    I'm a physicist and I don't care at all about what something is called or who created it. My focus is more on why it is used and what it means. The same applies for achievements. I don't take much notice of them except as activators, because to me they seem like chasing the superficial or irrelevant. ie. You take a course to learn and understand, a degree is a piece of paper you hang on a wall or a few letters to put after your name at the end of it. It has no literal meaning.

    This idea probably offends a few people who dream of going to university and having a degree. And I have got called unappreciative for taking this view, because a lot of people take a piece of paper or title quite seriously. But really they mean very little except as an activator. The only reason I see for caring is that it will make it easier to do the next thing you want to do. To make these things the goal is to ignore life. You work for four years and if the main thing you get out of it is a piece of paper and a title, was that four years used well? Is it the second of joy when it is done that you do it for? Or is it the understanding and where you have progressed to that really matters? Like the second of joy must be a pretty good second of joy if you can use four years for it. Still it works to dangle this in front of people and dangle the educated/sophisticated thing in front of people. If you look at the big picture, there are so many people in this category that you don't really stand out by getting there anyway.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I have noticed that some people, like Athenian and me, base their self-worth on finding something particular of value in themselves. This often results in low self-esteem. It does for me.
    What particular thing of yours do you place a value on? This would indicate things about you that you *don't* place a value on....

    So, truly, it's not 'contingent self-worth'. It's pre-existing criteria where you assign a value to a thing, and other things you don't. And, then go to find those in yourself.

    Maybe question your criteria, and how they come about?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that chasing achievement in order to feel better about yourself is yet another defense mechanism. In general, NTs are more prone to do it, SJs as well, than NFs. NFs tend to become codependent more as defense mechanism; investing "too much" in relationships.
    Anyway, that's okay. But IMO only temporarly. It can't make you happy long term, regardless what you achieve. Problem is when you're at the point where you seem to be now, when you believe that that's real; that self-worth is realy related to achievement. I've been on/off at that point, and it was usually when I had some underlying issues..in my case unhappiness about relationships etc. this is why i know it's false belief... unlike some friends i know who are like that whole life, ex. 2 INTPs, and aren't aware that it's defense mechanism.
    what i'm trying to say, need for prove your self-worth over achievement doesnt come out of nowhere, it's related deep feelings, which you should work on... ex... try to look at your younger self and see why you wouldnt like him unconditionaly..

  8. #28
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Are you going to be a persistent pain in my ass? I want to know if I should be actively working against you. So far I have not done that. I've been giving you ideas even though I don't want to. I thought it would be selfish to hold back. But I've been collecting material. I will work against you if you insist.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    Are you going to be a persistent pain in my ass? I want to know if I should be actively working against you. So far I have not done that. I've been giving you ideas even though I don't want to. I thought it would be selfish to hold back. But I've been collecting material. I will work against you if you insist.

  10. #30
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    My sentiments exactly. WTF is wrong with you?

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