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Decent female role models

Giggly

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I love and respect Elisabeth Hasselbeck on "The View". She doesn't have any "blow your hair back" type of achievements to speak of, but I usually agree with her social and political views, and am thankful to see and hear the female conservative view in the liberal media. She serves to show that female conservatives are alive and well despite the odds and mockery. She has a lot of courage.
 

INTJMom

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...unnecessarily belligerent people are to be found in both genders - IME moreso men. That behavior is, however, frowned upon more in the female of the species, in which case it can be fatal.
Yes. That is a problem for women.
 

ajblaise

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It may be true to some extent, but there's severe limits to it's application. One must look beyond.

It's very true, it has to do with testosterone. This is bio 101 stuff.
 

INA

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Rather, "open up to and examine new perspectives!"
Not really. People have been admonishing pesky women to be on their Ps and Qs and prescribing all manner of so-called new ways to assert themselves without chafing the men-folk since . . . forever. A new perspective would be a discussion of models of how people have overcome rancid gender-based biases to female assertiveness. Lord knows it's needed.
 

Xander

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I'm beginning to wonder if there's some male/ female perspective problem here because I agreed much more with Santtu than other responses...

I'm also wondering if there's deeper "twists" in this which are being overlooked, admittedly by me primarily.

Perhaps it would be more logical addressing how the current stock of role models get the job. The media it seems needs to be the one that's changed to set up the domino effect. Of course their usual black and white thinking will make a balance very precarious.

On another point, is it the perception of most here than women have a role and men do not?

Perhaps that facet needs evaluating. Are "role models" something placed for women to strive to because the poor little darlings can't trailblaze? Are men really without such aids?

Personally I think that role models may be being used as a control but to think that men have none is ignoring the obvious.
 

Xander

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Perhaps the best role models are not the names of popular culture (whether female or male). It might be better to look for role models among family, aquaintences, people at work, or others in the local community. The vast majority of celebrities are what I would consider people we should emulate.
Oh for sure. I couldn't agree more. However the problem seems systemic and therefore the solution would need to be systemic unless the system can be removed from the problem.
 

Xander

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Not really. People have been admonishing pesky women to be on their Ps and Qs and prescribing all manners of so-called new ways to assert themselves without chafing the men-folk since . . . forever. A new perspective would be a discussion of models of how people have overcome rancid gender-based biases to female assertiveness. Lord knows it's needed.
You've obviously been growing up somewhere markedly different to me then. Most everything male is suppressed and everything female is artificially lifted.

Oh and the rancid.... feminist?
 

INA

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You've obviously been growing up somewhere markedly different to me then. Most everything male is suppressed and everything female is artificially lifted.
I was looking beyond myself, actually. Though I am interested in hearing of this place where everything female is artificially (what?) lifted.

Oh and the rancid.... feminist?
wot? you disagree?
 

Xander

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I was looking beyond myself, actually. Though I am interested in hearing of this place where everything female is artificially (what?) lifted.
Positive discrimination to try to counteract negative discrimination instead of addressing the issue. That's how you end up with all women shortlists for political posts. Apparently the voting populace is sexist and according to democracy the population wanting a male representative is okay to ignore. To my mind it would make more sense to try to ensure that equal opportunities exist in the bits where control can be exerted fairly and then open it up to the populace like everything else. It seems that many in the PC department are ignoring that they're undermining the achievement of getting the position by unfairly loading the chances due to gender.

Also if you look at behaviour these days, yes they've limited all expression of violence but kept in every aspect of mental torture and in most cases assisted people in refining it. Hence you tend to get a bunch of katty people wherever, regardless of gender. And there's so many ways to transgress this artificial barrier it get's concerning 24/7. God help anyone who gets animated when they're annoyed but bullying is fine as long as it's just verbal and mental abuse.

Anyhow this is hardly the place to start a ping pong match about equal right. If you think you're being unfairly treated then grow a pair and do something about it without having to add in the knife in between the ribs or the parting shot just to prove that you're better and that Santtu is right.
 

INTJMom

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...
Perhaps that facet needs evaluating. Are "role models" something placed for women to strive to because the poor little darlings can't trailblaze? Are men really without such aids?
...
Men have "heroes".
Same thing.
 

surgery

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I love and respect Elisabeth Hasselbeck on "The View".


I really like Elisabeth Hasselbeck too. I don't always share her opinions, but I respect her more than any of the other members of The View because she always remains the most composed. The other members others tend to raise their voices, talk more, or crack jokes to get attention or articulate their ideas. Elisabeth, on the other hand, is usually the one most willing to seriously discuss an issue.

Another role might include Queen Rania Al-Abdullah of Jordan because of the advocacy work for women's rights in the Middle East, as well as efforts to counter negative stereotypes of the Arab world as a whole. As queen, she possess a innate social powers, but I think her refinement speaks louder than her title.

Joan of Arc is a classic example, for obvious reasons, of course.
 

Xander

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Men have "heroes".
Same thing.
Well precisely. Heroes are strong characters most always. It seems that "heroines" aren't always as strong and a worryingly number of times they seem crafted to form a particular kind of "heroine". One the hero stares at most usually.
 

sofmarhof

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I never felt the lack of female role models. Not that there are many of them, but I never felt it was a big problem. All of my role models are male. When your parents are feminists, you kind of take it for granted that women are equal, and don't need examples to show you it.

Then again, my male role models are Des Esseintes and Bartleby the Scrivener. Lord Whimsy, Beau Brummel. When these become really popular with young women we will know that feminism has achieved its goals.
 

INA

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Positive discrimination to try to counteract negative discrimination instead of addressing the issue. That's how you end up with all women shortlists for political posts. Apparently the voting populace is sexist and according to democracy the population wanting a male representative is okay to ignore. To my mind it would make more sense to try to ensure that equal opportunities exist in the bits where control can be exerted fairly and then open it up to the populace like everything else. It seems that many in the PC department are ignoring that they're undermining the achievement of getting the position by unfairly loading the chances due to gender.
Sounds like the axes you have to grind go beyond female assertiveness.

Also if you look at behaviour these days, yes they've limited all expression of violence but kept in every aspect of mental torture and in most cases assisted people in refining it. Hence you tend to get a bunch of katty people wherever, regardless of gender. And there's so many ways to transgress this artificial barrier it get's concerning 24/7. God help anyone who gets animated when they're annoyed but bullying is fine as long as it's just verbal and mental abuse.
Mental torture is female?
Oooo kay.

I do agree that catty bitchiness appears to be at an all-time high. However, like you said, gender appears no barrier to the practice of it. Woe.


Anyhow this is hardly the place to start a ping pong match about equal right. If you think you're being unfairly treated then grow a pair and do something about it without having to add in the knife in between the ribs or the parting shot just to prove that you're better and that Santtu is right.
But you did start a ping pong. Being told to grow a pair is a first, I admit (in all my days . . .), but I have discussed generalities, not myself in particular. Is a counter of an opinion or erroneous assertion now a complaint? I'm plain flummoxed at your "knife between the ribs" comment. Are you, like the women you and Santtu complain about, seeing things more hostile than they are?
 

INTJMom

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I never felt the lack of female role models. Not that there are many of them, but I never felt it was a big problem. All of my role models are male.
...
Umm... that too.

Cause frankly, I don't really like women that much.
All my heroes/role models were men. And some of them not worth emulating!
In the end, I had to develop my own persona that I could respect.
 

Xander

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Sounds like the axes you have to grind go beyond female assertiveness.
I prefer Lochaber to be accurate. And lots of things irritate me, women aren't special. Oh and that's getting towards one too many mistakes. Either quit making assumptions or get them closer. If I've got a problem with assertive women then I am one, capisce?
Mental torture is female?
Oooo kay.
Usually considered more prevalent in female children than male... well until they started wrapping everything in bubble wrap.
I do agree that catty bitchiness appears to be at an all-time high. However, like you said, gender appears no barrier to the practice of it. Woe.
As is is rarely as was without alteration no? What is now is not proof of what was only indicative. You associate the rise to???
But you did start a ping pong. Being told to grow a pair is a first, I admit (in all my days . . .), but I have discussed generalities, not myself in particular. Is a counter of an erroneous association now a complaint? I'm plain flummoxed at your "knife between the ribs" comment. Are you, like the women you and Santtu complain about, seeing things more hostile than they are?
That was more to the reader than to you. Hell you could be the over muscled guy from the gym in town for all I know.

As for seeing things as more hostile than they are, communication involves both parties. Whilst it does deserve analysis as to why perhaps myself and Santtu seem to agree it's pure supposition that we are somehow deluded.
 

INA

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I prefer Lochaber to be accurate. And lots of things irritate me, women aren't special. Oh and that's getting towards one too many mistakes. Either quit making assumptions or get them closer. If I've got a problem with assertive women then I am one, capisce?
I don't assume you have a problem with assertive women, esp. given your view on Widdecombe. But your making of the thread suggested that you perceive a problem to be remedied in this area. Your last post suggests a much more expansive view of a problem than the original post - that's all. But you can keep the conclusion mat. ;)

Usually considered more prevalent in female children than male... well until they started wrapping everything in bubble wrap.
Ah, maybe we did grow up in very different places. Mental torture doesn't seem particularly female to me, though I'd agree that physical violence was traditionally more a male province.

You associate the rise to???
The socio-cultural tide, but I don't see this as an elevation of any sort. Rather, it seems to me that people find it quixotic to aspire to rise above such things, so everybody is dragged down to a lower standard. There's no shame in the game if so many muck about in the gutter.

That was more to the reader than to you. Hell you could be the over muscled guy from the gym in town for all I know.
Ah, I see.
Sup sweet-cheeks? [Am I doing it rite?]

As for seeing things as more hostile than they are, communication involves both parties. Whilst it does deserve analysis as to why perhaps myself and Santtu seem to agree it's pure supposition that we are somehow deluded.
No comment re delusion.
Santtu wrote nothing to suggest perceived hostilities here, though.
Just saying.
 

Salomé

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Why does Xander need a female role model? :shock:

I confess, I'm completely puzzled as to what might have inspired OP's wee rant.
Since he has simply reiterated the ignorant remarks of a poster on another thread without providing any evidence or examples to back up his assertions, I'm gonna just go ahead and assume it's hormonal.

Well, yes. Let's have some male-sanctioned models of assertiveness for women to emulate.
Oh, yes please!

:popc1:

Meanwhile. Shami Chakrabarti does it for me. Indira Gandhi hasn't been mentioned yet either. Or Benazir Bhutto.
 
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