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  1. #51
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    I was looking beyond myself, actually. Though I am interested in hearing of this place where everything female is artificially (what?) lifted.
    Positive discrimination to try to counteract negative discrimination instead of addressing the issue. That's how you end up with all women shortlists for political posts. Apparently the voting populace is sexist and according to democracy the population wanting a male representative is okay to ignore. To my mind it would make more sense to try to ensure that equal opportunities exist in the bits where control can be exerted fairly and then open it up to the populace like everything else. It seems that many in the PC department are ignoring that they're undermining the achievement of getting the position by unfairly loading the chances due to gender.

    Also if you look at behaviour these days, yes they've limited all expression of violence but kept in every aspect of mental torture and in most cases assisted people in refining it. Hence you tend to get a bunch of katty people wherever, regardless of gender. And there's so many ways to transgress this artificial barrier it get's concerning 24/7. God help anyone who gets animated when they're annoyed but bullying is fine as long as it's just verbal and mental abuse.

    Anyhow this is hardly the place to start a ping pong match about equal right. If you think you're being unfairly treated then grow a pair and do something about it without having to add in the knife in between the ribs or the parting shot just to prove that you're better and that Santtu is right.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #52
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    ...
    Perhaps that facet needs evaluating. Are "role models" something placed for women to strive to because the poor little darlings can't trailblaze? Are men really without such aids?
    ...
    Men have "heroes".
    Same thing.

  3. #53
    Senior Member surgery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I love and respect Elisabeth Hasselbeck on "The View".

    I really like Elisabeth Hasselbeck too. I don't always share her opinions, but I respect her more than any of the other members of The View because she always remains the most composed. The other members others tend to raise their voices, talk more, or crack jokes to get attention or articulate their ideas. Elisabeth, on the other hand, is usually the one most willing to seriously discuss an issue.

    Another role might include Queen Rania Al-Abdullah of Jordan because of the advocacy work for women's rights in the Middle East, as well as efforts to counter negative stereotypes of the Arab world as a whole. As queen, she possess a innate social powers, but I think her refinement speaks louder than her title.

    Joan of Arc is a classic example, for obvious reasons, of course.

  4. #54
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Men have "heroes".
    Same thing.
    Well precisely. Heroes are strong characters most always. It seems that "heroines" aren't always as strong and a worryingly number of times they seem crafted to form a particular kind of "heroine". One the hero stares at most usually.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #55
    Senior Member sofmarhof's Avatar
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    I never felt the lack of female role models. Not that there are many of them, but I never felt it was a big problem. All of my role models are male. When your parents are feminists, you kind of take it for granted that women are equal, and don't need examples to show you it.

    Then again, my male role models are Des Esseintes and Bartleby the Scrivener. Lord Whimsy, Beau Brummel. When these become really popular with young women we will know that feminism has achieved its goals.

  6. #56
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Positive discrimination to try to counteract negative discrimination instead of addressing the issue. That's how you end up with all women shortlists for political posts. Apparently the voting populace is sexist and according to democracy the population wanting a male representative is okay to ignore. To my mind it would make more sense to try to ensure that equal opportunities exist in the bits where control can be exerted fairly and then open it up to the populace like everything else. It seems that many in the PC department are ignoring that they're undermining the achievement of getting the position by unfairly loading the chances due to gender.
    Sounds like the axes you have to grind go beyond female assertiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Also if you look at behaviour these days, yes they've limited all expression of violence but kept in every aspect of mental torture and in most cases assisted people in refining it. Hence you tend to get a bunch of katty people wherever, regardless of gender. And there's so many ways to transgress this artificial barrier it get's concerning 24/7. God help anyone who gets animated when they're annoyed but bullying is fine as long as it's just verbal and mental abuse.
    Mental torture is female?
    Oooo kay.

    I do agree that catty bitchiness appears to be at an all-time high. However, like you said, gender appears no barrier to the practice of it. Woe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Anyhow this is hardly the place to start a ping pong match about equal right. If you think you're being unfairly treated then grow a pair and do something about it without having to add in the knife in between the ribs or the parting shot just to prove that you're better and that Santtu is right.
    But you did start a ping pong. Being told to grow a pair is a first, I admit (in all my days . . .), but I have discussed generalities, not myself in particular. Is a counter of an opinion or erroneous assertion now a complaint? I'm plain flummoxed at your "knife between the ribs" comment. Are you, like the women you and Santtu complain about, seeing things more hostile than they are?
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  7. #57
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    I never felt the lack of female role models. Not that there are many of them, but I never felt it was a big problem. All of my role models are male.
    ...
    Umm... that too.

    Cause frankly, I don't really like women that much.
    All my heroes/role models were men. And some of them not worth emulating!
    In the end, I had to develop my own persona that I could respect.

  8. #58
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Sounds like the axes you have to grind go beyond female assertiveness.
    I prefer Lochaber to be accurate. And lots of things irritate me, women aren't special. Oh and that's getting towards one too many mistakes. Either quit making assumptions or get them closer. If I've got a problem with assertive women then I am one, capisce?
    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Mental torture is female?
    Oooo kay.
    Usually considered more prevalent in female children than male... well until they started wrapping everything in bubble wrap.
    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    I do agree that catty bitchiness appears to be at an all-time high. However, like you said, gender appears no barrier to the practice of it. Woe.
    As is is rarely as was without alteration no? What is now is not proof of what was only indicative. You associate the rise to???
    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    But you did start a ping pong. Being told to grow a pair is a first, I admit (in all my days . . .), but I have discussed generalities, not myself in particular. Is a counter of an erroneous association now a complaint? I'm plain flummoxed at your "knife between the ribs" comment. Are you, like the women you and Santtu complain about, seeing things more hostile than they are?
    That was more to the reader than to you. Hell you could be the over muscled guy from the gym in town for all I know.

    As for seeing things as more hostile than they are, communication involves both parties. Whilst it does deserve analysis as to why perhaps myself and Santtu seem to agree it's pure supposition that we are somehow deluded.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #59
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I prefer Lochaber to be accurate. And lots of things irritate me, women aren't special. Oh and that's getting towards one too many mistakes. Either quit making assumptions or get them closer. If I've got a problem with assertive women then I am one, capisce?
    I don't assume you have a problem with assertive women, esp. given your view on Widdecombe. But your making of the thread suggested that you perceive a problem to be remedied in this area. Your last post suggests a much more expansive view of a problem than the original post - that's all. But you can keep the conclusion mat.

    Usually considered more prevalent in female children than male... well until they started wrapping everything in bubble wrap.
    Ah, maybe we did grow up in very different places. Mental torture doesn't seem particularly female to me, though I'd agree that physical violence was traditionally more a male province.

    You associate the rise to???
    The socio-cultural tide, but I don't see this as an elevation of any sort. Rather, it seems to me that people find it quixotic to aspire to rise above such things, so everybody is dragged down to a lower standard. There's no shame in the game if so many muck about in the gutter.

    That was more to the reader than to you. Hell you could be the over muscled guy from the gym in town for all I know.
    Ah, I see.
    Sup sweet-cheeks? [Am I doing it rite?]

    As for seeing things as more hostile than they are, communication involves both parties. Whilst it does deserve analysis as to why perhaps myself and Santtu seem to agree it's pure supposition that we are somehow deluded.
    No comment re delusion.
    Santtu wrote nothing to suggest perceived hostilities here, though.
    Just saying.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  10. #60
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Why does Xander need a female role model?

    I confess, I'm completely puzzled as to what might have inspired OP's wee rant.
    Since he has simply reiterated the ignorant remarks of a poster on another thread without providing any evidence or examples to back up his assertions, I'm gonna just go ahead and assume it's hormonal.

    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Well, yes. Let's have some male-sanctioned models of assertiveness for women to emulate.
    Oh, yes please!



    Meanwhile. Shami Chakrabarti does it for me. Indira Gandhi hasn't been mentioned yet either. Or Benazir Bhutto.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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