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Relationship to Authority

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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I thought it might be interesting to have a thread to discuss people's relationship to authority. Some questions might include: How do you approach and resolve conflicts with authority? What sort of impression do you typically make on authority figures? Does some authority approval mean something to do? Or do you disregard authority whether earned by its merits or not? Is there any relationship between this and your earliest authority figures? I'm sure there are many other important angles to explore, but these are just suggestions.

My own relationship to authority strikes me unexpectedly at times. I often tend to fulfill their requirements and don't intentionally cause trouble, and for that reason am often liked or accepted for the most part. I don't feel submissive exactly, but go for efficiency and the path of least resistance in my interactions. For some reason though, there is a pattern of certain types of authority figures who feel a great deal of contempt for me. They are usually the master of their domain, have some degree of emphasis on image creation, in my case they happened to have been male. Examples would be conductors in a relatively small community, department chairs at a college, a few instances online, and other such scenarios. I don't actively work to piss them off, but boy, something happens. Their reactions used to shock me, but even though my understanding is still dim on the topic, it doesn't surprise me anymore. It just brings to mind how complex these interactions are.

Anyway, I included my own blurb in the OP, but would like to hear about other people's experiences and how they think about and relate to authority figures.
 
S

Sniffles

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I've always had a love-hate relationship to authority. On one hand, I have considerable respect and even admiration for what I perceive as legitimate authority; but at the same time I have absolute contempt for any authority arbitrarily imposed upon me, and certainly towards any authority that's misused or abused.
 

teslashock

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I don't react well to authority at all, especially when I see no good reason for somebody to have authority over me. If some jack-ass is in a position of authority and isn't actually more qualified then me, then I get particularly annoyed. Maybe I'm just a pompous asshole, but I feel like I'm more capable than most people in most areas that I actually apply myself, and I find that many of my authority figures are ultimately on a power-trip and don't have the kind of competence to warrant their authoritative position.

I can be pretty hard to work with honestly. When I'm told what to do, if I don't see a good reason for doing it, then I will get pretty angsty. Being told to do something makes me want to do something even less, even if it's something that I wouldn't mind doing in the first place. I just have this natural spiteful attitude in me, and it's quite childish. I'd probably go so far as to hold my piss to my bladder's breaking point if somebody was trying to order me to go use the bathroom. :alttongue: I just really don't like being told what to do!

However, if I am working in a field that is completely new to me, I'll gladly submit to the whims of somebody else, so long as I believe in their competence in said field. Once I start to master a particular skill, I'll start wanting to do my things my own way again though.
 

Athenian200

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Submissive.

But with a desire to secretly sabotoge if the authority is ridiculously unfair.
 

Walking Tourist

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My response to and relationship with an authority figure really depends on who the authority figure is. As an example of an authority figure that I will always defer to is a choir director. To get a good sound out of the choir, the director must be in charge. The director must determine the rhythm and the dynamics of the music, and the singers have to follow the director. A good choir director is also a good teacher. The choir director describes his or her impression of the message that the music is trying to convey and then teaches us, the choir members, how to produce the sound that will impart that message to the audience. A really confident choir director presents a positive approach and, thus, motivates choir members to want to follow all directions.
I love music so I will defer to the choir director who, I am assuming, also loves music. I want to share my joy with the audience. And yes, the approval of a good choir director means everything to me.
There are other authority figures who seem to be more concerned with power than with creating something beautiful. When I was in prison, the "people in charge" made all sorts of stupid, petty rules that changed at the whim of the correctional officers. Neither the rules nor the people setting them made any sense, so I violated the rules whenever I chose. And I got away with it. I followed only my own personal ethics. Be kind to others was pretty much it. And sometimes, being kind to others and following the rules clashed. So being kind to others won out.
 

Totenkindly

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My own relationship to authority strikes me unexpectedly at times. I often tend to fulfill their requirements and don't intentionally cause trouble, and for that reason am often liked or accepted for the most part. I don't feel submissive exactly, but go for efficiency and the path of least resistance in my interactions.

That pretty much describes my approach to authority figures -- they all viewed me as the "good kid," because I would not intentionally cause trouble and fulfilled everything they wanted from me. This is more efficient for everyone concerned, and gives me more autonomy in general, + more leverage in case a situation arises where I need to make waves.

In actually, I'm indifferent to authority in general. I weigh out the rules, I follow the ones that make sense OR follow them if it seems more important to keep authorities off my back OR if there is some other benefit.

I can however become inwardly contemptuous when I feel that authorities are becoming overbearing + are imposing illogical/non-constructive rules on people. I'll start shifting into passive-aggressive mode if I have to comply, or I'll just ignore the rules, and if a confrontation is forced, nowadays I will probably engage and fight pretty hard. I can even find myself having personally directed ire at the people in question and lose my respect for them and not want to be around them.

As a side issue, "authority positioning" actually created issues between my ESTP dad and us kids when growing up. He of course despised authority, shot off his mouth, jockeyed for positions, played angles, always tried to get away with murder, was very disrespectful... all the typical maverick "I have something to prove" crap. Thus, he expected my sister and me to be like him, and he really misjudged us and opened a wide rift in how he treated us... accused us of lying when we weren't, was always suspicious, manipulated us to get the angle, etc. He never really understood that we were both generally "good kids" who obeyed authority in the sensible ways, so his approach was very insulting and demeaning to both of us and reduced any sense of family intimacy.

For some reason though, there is a pattern of certain types of authority figures who feel a great deal of contempt for me. They are usually the master of their domain, have some degree of emphasis on image creation, in my case they happened to have been male. Examples would be conductors in a relatively small community, department chairs at a college, a few instances online, and other such scenarios. I don't actively work to piss them off, but boy, something happens. Their reactions used to shock me, but even though my understanding is still dim on the topic, it doesn't surprise me anymore. It just brings to mind how complex these interactions are.

That is weird. i wonder how much the 'good ol' boy' complex is in place there, considering your general amiability. It seems to me they are either threatened by you or feel like they can't dominate you, and so they try to push down even harder.
 
B

brainheart

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I have serious issues with authority. I hate being told what to do. I hate it so much that jobs are often impossible for me. That said, I respect certain authority figures, like certain priests or teachers, because typically they have a good heart and really believe in what they're doing and I don't want them to feel bad or to hurt their feelings. I give them the same respect I give to everyone else. But if someone lords their authority over me, or expects me to respect them just because of their authority, forget it. I can't do it. I become an anarchic, rebellious teenager. So kind of like walking tourist, I guess...
 

Siúil a Rúin

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That is weird. i wonder how much the 'good ol' boy' complex is in place there, considering your general amiability. It seems to me they are either threatened by you or feel like they can't dominate you, and so they try to push down even harder.
I've spent time analyzing it. My motives towards them have always been without a problem. I never initially disliked any of them, worked hard in whatever task I was given, and thought I paid them some compliments. I don't flirt with them, and in a few cases felt like there was some pressure that way. I also have a sense that I don't compliment them enough, and my quietness is interpreted badly. I do make sure to say positive things, though. There is also something about people who are image based themselves and assume everyone is projecting a constructed image that have contempt for me. I don't consciously construct an image, but whatever it is I put out there, it goes off quite badly for those who think in terms of image.

I think there is also a problem in being pleasant and amiable, but not submissive and controllable because it creates an expectation and disappointment for controlling people. But the thing is, as far as the fragment requirement they have assigned me is concerned, I do the task given and I do it well. I don't know what is gained for them to have such dislike for me in what feels like a more personal way.

The negative reactions are deliberate towards me including nasty faces and intentional insults that are sometimes not particularly veiled. I usually cut them out of my plans at that point and end any professional ties because it seems so strange and I just don't have the energy to figure it out when it's my livelihood I am trying to negotiate. I'd rather work a job that doesn't require my training then deal with that contempt. (which on second reading is probably the entire point of their behavior)
 

compulsiverambler

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I'm indifferent in principle. I don't like authority figures to act poorly, but I don't like anyone else to either. What's the difference?

I feel really bad for people in authority when their authority is undermined, so I try not to disappoint or make them doubt themselves or feel anxious by being insubordinate. It's really just about how I imagine it must make them feel, which is probably skewed by how I know I've mentally gone to pieces when finding myself failing at work in any way. Sometimes, especially at school, I've wanted to stand up against something unfair or disobey an order I disagreed with, but I've felt guilty enough about the prospect to keep quiet.

The fact that no one else seems to think like this makes me suspect I over-estimate how badly most people are affected by signs of failure.

I don't think it has anything to do with my earliest authority figures. This came later, when I first started seeing teachers etc. as normal people, who had homes and families to go back to, not so entirely different from myself.
 

Walking Tourist

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"anarchic, rebellious teenager"
that's a good description..
... I respect certain priests and teachers, who have a positive, affirming approach... and I want them to be happy.
I always try to respect people because they exist and deserve respect, not because they are authority figures.


I have serious issues with authority. I hate being told what to do. I hate it so much that jobs are often impossible for me. That said, I respect certain authority figures, like certain priests or teachers, because typically they have a good heart and really believe in what they're doing and I don't want them to feel bad or to hurt their feelings. I give them the same respect I give to everyone else. But if someone lords their authority over me, or expects me to respect them just because of their authority, forget it. I can't do it. I become an anarchic, rebellious teenager. So kind of like walking tourist, I guess...
 

proximo

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One thing that struck me was the usage of the preposition "to" in the title. It seems to my mind that you can't have a relationship *to* something - it has to involve the other person in a reciprocal, interactive situation (relationship *with*), otherwise it's simply your opinion of them, which they need not necessarily either know, care about or reciprocate.

I've had various experiences with authority. As a child my awareness of the illicit nature of what I was doing went alongside the desire to do it anyway, because I either didn't understand why I ought not to, didn't agree with the reasons, or believed my reasons superseded them.

Usually though, as a younger child, I'd just avoid being caught, and if I got caught out and it was a fair cop, I'd simply accept the punishment philosophically and make mental notes as to how to avoid capture next time.

I'm normally quite happy to work with authority rather than against it. I've come to see it as a reciprocal thing where we serve each other's needs. I guess when I get my hackles up and go all Three Musketeers style defiance, is when they're treating me like an idiot and sort of abusing their position... like they're not acknowledging that I'm complying because I'm supporting their job description (inasmuch as it supports mine), not because I'm in awe of them personally, so I don't take well to them overstepping their bounds or trying to diddle me out of my human rights.

It's not that I spend my time thinking of ways to rebel, but if my conscience or personal sense of honour or dignity compels me to rebel then it just comes out before I can do a thing about it. I wouldn't say so much that I'm not afraid of it, just that regardless of whether I am or not, I can't let myself be abused by it. Maybe that's just self-esteem?
 
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Zoom

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How do you approach and resolve conflicts with authority? What sort of impression do you typically make on authority figures? Or do you disregard authority whether earned by its merits or not? Is there any relationship between this and your earliest authority figures?

Authority is given the same initial respect I give most people, a baseline off of which they either subtract or add to through their actions. I do not get involved with an authority if they seem tyrannical, power-hungry or mean spirited. Unless they are actively targeting people who cannot or have not stood up for themselves, at which point I do something because it would be wrong to let it lie.

Otherwise I simply go around them, like water circumventing a boulder in its path. I simply do not care. Power struggles, one-upsmanship, competition just to prove one is right - ye can have them. All they do is cause stress and delay the solution to problems.

I make the same impression on authority figures as most others: supposedly I am quiet, respectful, efficient, intelligent and 'good'.

It may very well be related to my earliest authority figures. The two who were around for the longest were ones who could not be reasoned with, who utilized a no-questions-allowed, angry style of authority when they were around (which was rare) that left me mute and furious at my own impotence. I was left to my own devices and to take care of myself past the age of ten or so, so I got used to making autonomous decisions early on, including ones related to safety and life decisions. (Thusly, the occasional times they tried to "put their foot down" resulted in fireworks and a defiant refusal on my part.)

At some point I simply stopped telling them anything and did what I needed to do, without their knowledge or consent.
 

disregard

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If it's fair and good-natured I respect it and am most myself.
If it's unfair or domineering I resent it and close off.
 

Hirsch63

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How do you approach and resolve conflicts with authority?

I rarely feel myself subordinate or inferior to any conventional authority. I believe in the social contract and expect any figure representing accepted laws to treat me as equals in every respect. I don't back down on this, and this tends to create problems with authorities who are very "invested" in their positions...so, I have a bit of a problem relating to those who are arbitrary...

What sort of impression do you typically make on authority figures?

Probably a bit suspect. I dress in a manner I can afford and in worn work clothes...where I may be seen as poor or disadvantaged therefore powerless, unambitious or "low class". Though the way I carry myself can often suprise an authority and throw them off balance...to my advantage.

Does some authority approval mean something to do?

Or do you disregard authority whether earned by its merits or not?

When we are discussing a discpline rather than compliance to societal laws, approval does mean a lot to me. When mastery is demonstrable through competence and broad vision I seek that autority as a reliable source for my own behaviour and practice. My respect must be merited by performance and observable result. There is of course a place for authority in its proper sphere, and it must be measured to the situation...this discretion is generally earned only by experience. A masterful practitioner who lacks a wide long term vision in the effects of their works on society/environment is certainly less than an authority to me.

Is there any relationship between this and your earliest authority figures?

Yes.
 

EcK

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I am my own source of authority.
 

Ruthie

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I generally follow authority in practice because it's often necessary in life. When I was in college, I completed the work that was assigned; in my jobs, I don't disregard what my superiors want me to do; and I pull over when police sirens are behind me. Obviously that's not universal (I didn't turn in every assignment, didn't complete everything I was expected to at work, and was actually - weirdly - involved in a little game of dodge-the-cops once.

If the question is about feelings regarding authority, and not actions, then I'd say it's more mixed. I hate being told what to do by people who have no business ordering me to do anything - and this has been the cause of some conflict. If a person has earned my respect, then I have no problem deferring to them.

I tend to put a lot of stock into dependability/stickability. So, while I don't really care about a person's credentials (where they went to school or who they know), I do care about the length of their experience. I usually trust someone who has just been around for a while. I've really nailed the whole "respect your elders" thing.
 

nomadic

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its either character based, or practicality based

character based meaning, i would probably respect whatever it is they authoritored on me if i perceive them as having good character. i.e. a while ago, a cop pulled me over and gave me a seat belt ticket. lolz. I was like "What the heck? Are you guys that desperate for some revenue?" And the cop just flat out said without hesitation " Well, I guess so. on the freeways today, there was absolutely no one speeding, which is weird. So im pulling over no seat belts today..." which was totally cool with me. amazing honesty. I actually didn't mind paying the fine as a result.

Then other times, to a judge i've argued that its selfish for a county to impose fines on other county drivers bc of making up revenue transfers from budget surplus counties to budget deficit counties, when its state to state we should be worried about which is much much bigger. stuff that just shocks the system. I've challenged douchebag cops to a fight before, but I'd say "After you get off of work, wanna brawl?" cus while they are on duty, they are the law. But nowadays, its a practical matter. Does it stand in the way of something else that I really want? Then I'll just defer.
 

cafe

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I agree with Jennifer's interpretation. They perceive your quiet cooperative demeanor as being submissive. When they discover that it's not the case, they attempt to force submission by dominant/hostile behavior.

I think humans are sort of like other social predators in that we have a pack order and when you don't behave in a submissive manner when someone is really invested in being top dog, they get all snarly and try to hump you and stuff.

I haven't run into it real often, but I cannot be around people like that. I am about as Omega as you can get until somebody tries to pull that crap and then, if I don't get out of the situation, I get mean and aggressive very quickly. It just makes me to the point that I don't care about consequences anymore.
 

Eowyn

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I often tend to fulfill their requirements and don't intentionally cause trouble, and for that reason am often liked or accepted for the most part. I don't feel submissive exactly, but go for efficiency and the path of least resistance in my interactions.

This generally sums up my experiences with authority. There is usually no problem. If, however, the authority imposes an arbitrary restriction simply because they can, I tend to rebel.
 

kiddykat

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I treat authority figures like I would anyone else- depending on who's the authority- this might fair well and might not..

How does it relate to the authority figures I had at a young age? I think there's some correlation.

I tend to cooperate more with those who are authoritative, rather than authoritarian.

And with authority figures, I realize that some people like to create drama. When stuck with one of those types of personalities, I tend to be friendly but keep my distance. I know they have their own issues and so do I, but life's too short to be consumed with all that..

Sometimes, people will automatically judge and dislike others for their own apparent lack of insight/ignorance. And when they see someone who works hard, maybe they see it as a threat to their own position?
 
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