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Body Language

Bamboo

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
2,689
MBTI Type
XXFP
Trick question: who is relaxed?
2009+MusiCares+Person+Year+Gala+Arrivals+2fqhosolSIkl.jpg


PSJ_closed_arms_down.jpg

Hahaha wow this is hard.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Neil Diamond is relaxed.
Legs wide stance (look at the bottom of the photo) with arms crossed on front.
The arms crossed does not indicate the stereotypical "defensiveness" in this case,
but rather indicates an authoritative type of person, overall.
He's leaning slightly forward, which indicates the intent to engage you.

The girl has something going on with her left hand. It almost appears clinched.
She may be smiling, but there's something amiss. Her posture is stiff and forced.
Looks like someone stuck a steel rod up her back.
Despite the fact I can't see it, I have no doubt she has her legs very close together.
An uncomfortable stance, overall.
 

Ozz

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
197
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Just press the subtitles button on the remote control of life. It will translate all foreign languages into the one you understand best, and the translations will conveniently appear right above people's heads. You can even change the font size!

Does it also show the name and the Facebook profile of the person? If so, I am SO buying it!:D
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
Body language, like tone of voice, is unconscious.

So body language and tone of voice happen while we are doing something else.

So if we focus on body language or tone of voice, we are unable to focus on what we are doing.

And we come across as awkward 'cause we are.

But it is far worse than mere awkwardness. Those who focus on body language, or tone of voice, or type, are trying to pull a cheap trick.

And rather than relating to the person, they are trying to manipulate them.

And that is how they come across - as awkward manipulators pulling a cheap trick.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
yeah, if you're into socionics, i guess it is.

I haven't got as far as socionics. I am still battling MBTI. But if you were to read my body language, what would it say?
 

Zenihita

New member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
50
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4
And why not follow on and read someone's body language rather than relate to them as another person.

Reading body language has nothing to do with manipulation, it actually is a way of relating to another person better.

So if we focus on body language or tone of voice, we are unable to focus on what we are doing.

And we come across as awkward 'cause we are.

But it is far worse than mere awkwardness. Those who focus on body language, or tone of voice, or type, are trying to pull a cheap trick.

Sure, cause a person can only focus on one thing at a time, there is no human being capable of listening and looking at the same time, or talking and walking for that matter. And how could anyone even imagine doing three things simultaneously?! :ohmy:

To the OP: yes, definitely just pay more attention, watch people. I'm pretty sure that after a while you will notice and understand more than you used to. If your goal for now is to understand whether a person is interested in the conversation with you or not, just focus on their face and maybe hands.
If they like what you're saying they will look you in the eyes (for the most part) and maybe even nod ever so slightly.
Watch their eyes, their eyebrows and forehead, their mouth. The most important thing is to see the expressions, cause some people are oblivious to that, when you are able to see it, you will be able to learn how to interpret it right over time.
A good way to understand the expression is to try and imitate it and think in what situation would you make such face, what emotions would cause it.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Body language, like tone of voice, is unconscious.

So body language and tone of voice happen while we are doing something else.

So if we focus on body language or tone of voice, we are unable to focus on what we are doing.

And we come across as awkward 'cause we are.

But it is far worse than mere awkwardness. Those who focus on body language, or tone of voice, or type, are trying to pull a cheap trick.

And rather than relating to the person, they are trying to manipulate them.

And that is how they come across - as awkward manipulators pulling a cheap trick.


To be frank, I find the above post an attempt to manipulate others.
 

Spamtar

Ghost Monkey Soul
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
4,468
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
manipulate, maysmipulate...its all about doing A to get to B, beyond that its merely semantics; when will feelers realize this simple fact? I can manipulate my body language, tone of voice and focus on what I am doing all at the same time. Rub my tummy while patting my head.

It is what it is.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
manipulate, maysmipulate...its all about doing A to get to B, beyond that its merely semantics; when will feelers realize this simple fact? I can manipulate my body language, tone of voice and focus on what I am doing all at the same time. Rub my tummy while patting my head.

It is what it is.

Very few people in the world can manipulate their body language or tone of voice and focus on what they are doing.

Meryl Streep is one of them. And she is an absolutely top flight actress.

And I think, Spamtar, the danger is not that you will fool us, but that you will fool yourself.
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

New member
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
1,123
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
4w5
To the OP: I've found that studying body language has helped me two-fold:

1. It brought me out of my internal world a bit and made me more attentive to the details of things around me... which in turn;

2. Let me examine conversations in real-time to gauge more accurately peoples' responses to things. It helped me to stop accidentally hurting peoples' feelings.

I agree with Victor to an extent though. When doing this, I tend to shut off the 'intuition' and gut instinct side of myself. I don't hear it as much because I'm focused externally instead of internally... where ultimately my intuition may have been a better guide all along because it would have picked up on things that my conscious mind never will.

I have been doing it for a while now, and I think I'm getting better at balancing the two simultaneously... and really, all things considered, I think it was a good move for me. The INTJ awkwardness has phased out a little and I can engage better in 'small talk'. I find it a kind of game with myself to see how well I can act the part of the extrovert, but when I'm tired and running on low, I revert back to the intuitive with foot-in-mouth disease.

I would recommend continuing on this road of studying body language, but dont let it blind you to the real value of honest communication with people who are close to you. It is probably most helpful with strangers that you don't know well... whereas people that you know and love probably deserve more from you than to become a specimine under the INTJ microscope. Victor's point about reading body language being 'manipulative' seems close to the truth, but maybe the wrong word. I think what he may be getting at is that when you are focused so intently on reading 'signs', you're missing out on the real magic of two people having a genuine connection.

For an INTJ though, those connections don't happen often so I've reverted to my bug-in-the-jar studying of people so that I don't make an ass of myself as much.
 

paperoceans

Une Femme est une femme
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
834
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
8w7
I'm not to sure about this body language mumbo jumbo. I avoid eye contact and I'm always looking around, that doesn't mean that I'm lying or that I'm "trying to escape". Eye contact just makes me feel uncomfortable and I like observing the scene. Different people behave differently, unless you've been around someone for a long time and you know them long enough to notice certain patterns, I wouldn't pay much attention to BL
 

forzen

New member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
547
MBTI Type
INTJ
I think my problem is I pay too much attention to what the other person is saying, rather than what he or she is doing. With that, thanks for the input everyone, yes even Victor....

/Brofist man

...........
...................__
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(

Keep those naughty NTs from generalizing people...someone has to do it :D.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
yes even Victor....

And a really nice way to hypnotize someone is to mimic their body language.

Ladies-men, of course, know how to hypnotize women by mimicking their body language. And vice versa.

And I hardly need to point out that this is a manipulation that would appeal to many here.

Why trouble with MBTI or star signs if you can simply mimic their body language?

And the only price you pay, as Misty Mountain Rose says, "is missing out on the real magic of two people having a genuine connection".

And this is the price you pay for tricking another person.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
I think one of the things that is useful with body language is that it conveys the majority of what is being said, yet is the most open to being misconstrued or having multiple meanings. Therefore, words are needed to confirm what the intent of the message truly is. However, when words do not match up with body language, the words are the least convincing part of the message. This is why I believe body language matters.

Perhaps the most important reason for understanding it is so that you are sure that you are conveying the message you intend to convey. For example, PaperOceans may not be lying or looking to escape. However if she is chatting with you and says what a great time she's having, while avoiding eye contact and looking elsewhere frequently, you'll be left with the distinct feeling that she is indeed not having a great time, or at the very least that if something more interesting came along, she'd be out of there. That is unlikely what she intends for people to feel, but may be what they get out of the exchange.

The other valuable aspect of paying attention to body language is that it takes your attention off of you and puts it on the other person. This allows you to truly give and receive all of the information needed, as well as think about how to put the other person at ease, especially if you are able to notice their discomfort. You can share their joy if that is what they are feeling, or their sadness etc. When you don't notice those things, you miss a lot of what is happening around you.

Just a few more common ones: slumpy posture may indicate sadness or lack of confidence or weariness. An unblinking look with little facial expression may mean disagreement, or evaluating what is being said. A true smile reaches the eyes instead of just engaging the mouth. People who are lying usually maintain unbroken eye contact rather than shifty eye contact as is commonly thought because they want to see how their listener is reacting to the information. Direct face to face contact is usually more intimate, indicating either affection/interest (when accompanied by smiling, touching, looking into the eyes) or on the opposite end of the spectrum, hostility (usually accompanied by aggressive stance and staring). They say dilated pupils indicate romantic interest, but I hope that's not true because mine are naturally quite dilated even around people I don't like!

I don't agree with Victor that paying attention to body language is manipulative. It is taking in all of the relevent information to make an appropriate judgement call. Not doing so is like purposefully ignoring the part of the invitation where it says what type of attire is appropriate to wear, or not reading the fine print before signing a document. It doesn't make sense to avoid using all the information that is at our disposal to make an appropriate decision and a fair assessment. It is a large part of what tells us whether we can trust someone or not. Often if something seems a little "off" about someone, it has to do with irregular/inconsistent body language, or their body language disagreeing with their message.
 

Scott N Denver

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
2,898
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
I think one of the things that is useful with body language is that it conveys the majority of what is being said, yet is the most open to being misconstrued or having multiple meanings. Therefore, words are needed to confirm what the intent of the message truly is. However, when words do not match up with body language, the words are the least convincing part of the message. This is why I believe body language matters.

Perhaps the most important reason for understanding it is so that you are sure that you are conveying the message you intend to convey. For example, PaperOceans may not be lying or looking to escape. However if she is chatting with you and says what a great time she's having, while avoiding eye contact and looking elsewhere frequently, you'll be left with the distinct feeling that she is indeed not having a great time, or at the very least that if something more interesting came along, she'd be out of there. That is unlikely what she intends for people to feel, but may be what they get out of the exchange.

The other valuable aspect of paying attention to body language is that it takes your attention off of you and puts it on the other person. This allows you to truly give and receive all of the information needed, as well as think about how to put the other person at ease, especially if you are able to notice their discomfort. You can share their joy if that is what they are feeling, or their sadness etc. When you don't notice those things, you miss a lot of what is happening around you.

Just a few more common ones: slumpy posture may indicate sadness or lack of confidence or weariness. An unblinking look with little facial expression may mean disagreement, or evaluating what is being said. A true smile reaches the eyes instead of just engaging the mouth. People who are lying usually maintain unbroken eye contact rather than shifty eye contact as is commonly thought because they want to see how their listener is reacting to the information. Direct face to face contact is usually more intimate, indicating either affection/interest (when accompanied by smiling, touching, looking into the eyes) or on the opposite end of the spectrum, hostility (usually accompanied by aggressive stance and staring). They say dilated pupils indicate romantic interest, but I hope that's not true because mine are naturally quite dilated even around people I don't like!

I don't agree with Victor that paying attention to body language is manipulative. It is taking in all of the relevent information to make an appropriate judgement call. Not doing so is like purposefully ignoring the part of the invitation where it says what type of attire is appropriate to wear, or not reading the fine print before signing a document. It doesn't make sense to avoid using all the information that is at our disposal to make an appropriate decision and a fair assessment. It is a large part of what tells us whether we can trust someone or not. Often if something seems a little "off" about someone, it has to do with irregular/inconsistent body language, or their body language disagreeing with their message.

Oh just admit it fidelia, you know you want me. :devil: Afterall, your pupils give it away... :newwink: :cheese:

Just kidding [for all the other readers here who may not know what I am kidding]
 

forzen

New member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
547
MBTI Type
INTJ
I think one of the things that is useful with body language is that it conveys the majority of what is being said, yet is the most open to being misconstrued or having multiple meanings. Therefore, words are needed to confirm what the intent of the message truly is. However, when words do not match up with body language, the words are the least convincing part of the message. This is why I believe body language matters.

Perhaps the most important reason for understanding it is so that you are sure that you are conveying the message you intend to convey. For example, PaperOceans may not be lying or looking to escape. However if she is chatting with you and says what a great time she's having, while avoiding eye contact and looking elsewhere frequently, you'll be left with the distinct feeling that she is indeed not having a great time, or at the very least that if something more interesting came along, she'd be out of there. That is unlikely what she intends for people to feel, but may be what they get out of the exchange.

The other valuable aspect of paying attention to body language is that it takes your attention off of you and puts it on the other person. This allows you to truly give and receive all of the information needed, as well as think about how to put the other person at ease, especially if you are able to notice their discomfort. You can share their joy if that is what they are feeling, or their sadness etc. When you don't notice those things, you miss a lot of what is happening around you.

Just a few more common ones: slumpy posture may indicate sadness or lack of confidence or weariness. An unblinking look with little facial expression may mean disagreement, or evaluating what is being said. A true smile reaches the eyes instead of just engaging the mouth. People who are lying usually maintain unbroken eye contact rather than shifty eye contact as is commonly thought because they want to see how their listener is reacting to the information. Direct face to face contact is usually more intimate, indicating either affection/interest (when accompanied by smiling, touching, looking into the eyes) or on the opposite end of the spectrum, hostility (usually accompanied by aggressive stance and staring). They say dilated pupils indicate romantic interest, but I hope that's not true because mine are naturally quite dilated even around people I don't like!

I don't agree with Victor that paying attention to body language is manipulative. It is taking in all of the relevent information to make an appropriate judgement call. Not doing so is like purposefully ignoring the part of the invitation where it says what type of attire is appropriate to wear, or not reading the fine print before signing a document. It doesn't make sense to avoid using all the information that is at our disposal to make an appropriate decision and a fair assessment. It is a large part of what tells us whether we can trust someone or not. Often if something seems a little "off" about someone, it has to do with irregular/inconsistent body language, or their body language disagreeing with their message.

Yes i agree with you, it's more enjoyable to know body language while conversing....it might even develop into a more meaningful relationship because of the connecting that can be made with deeper understanding of each other.
 
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