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Thread: Body Language

  1. #31
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    manipulate, maysmipulate...its all about doing A to get to B, beyond that its merely semantics; when will feelers realize this simple fact? I can manipulate my body language, tone of voice and focus on what I am doing all at the same time. Rub my tummy while patting my head.

    It is what it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    manipulate, maysmipulate...its all about doing A to get to B, beyond that its merely semantics; when will feelers realize this simple fact? I can manipulate my body language, tone of voice and focus on what I am doing all at the same time. Rub my tummy while patting my head.

    It is what it is.
    Very few people in the world can manipulate their body language or tone of voice and focus on what they are doing.

    Meryl Streep is one of them. And she is an absolutely top flight actress.

    And I think, Spamtar, the danger is not that you will fool us, but that you will fool yourself.

  3. #33
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And I think, Spamtar, the danger is not that you will fool us, but that you will fool yourself.
    Nicely put.

    JSTOR: Notes From the Underground

  4. #34
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    To the OP: I've found that studying body language has helped me two-fold:

    1. It brought me out of my internal world a bit and made me more attentive to the details of things around me... which in turn;

    2. Let me examine conversations in real-time to gauge more accurately peoples' responses to things. It helped me to stop accidentally hurting peoples' feelings.

    I agree with Victor to an extent though. When doing this, I tend to shut off the 'intuition' and gut instinct side of myself. I don't hear it as much because I'm focused externally instead of internally... where ultimately my intuition may have been a better guide all along because it would have picked up on things that my conscious mind never will.

    I have been doing it for a while now, and I think I'm getting better at balancing the two simultaneously... and really, all things considered, I think it was a good move for me. The INTJ awkwardness has phased out a little and I can engage better in 'small talk'. I find it a kind of game with myself to see how well I can act the part of the extrovert, but when I'm tired and running on low, I revert back to the intuitive with foot-in-mouth disease.

    I would recommend continuing on this road of studying body language, but dont let it blind you to the real value of honest communication with people who are close to you. It is probably most helpful with strangers that you don't know well... whereas people that you know and love probably deserve more from you than to become a specimine under the INTJ microscope. Victor's point about reading body language being 'manipulative' seems close to the truth, but maybe the wrong word. I think what he may be getting at is that when you are focused so intently on reading 'signs', you're missing out on the real magic of two people having a genuine connection.

    For an INTJ though, those connections don't happen often so I've reverted to my bug-in-the-jar studying of people so that I don't make an ass of myself as much.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  5. #35
    Une Femme est une femme paperoceans's Avatar
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    I'm not to sure about this body language mumbo jumbo. I avoid eye contact and I'm always looking around, that doesn't mean that I'm lying or that I'm "trying to escape". Eye contact just makes me feel uncomfortable and I like observing the scene. Different people behave differently, unless you've been around someone for a long time and you know them long enough to notice certain patterns, I wouldn't pay much attention to BL
    Between that cigarillo and sticking my finger down my throat to see if I could DT, I feel like puking RN.

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  6. #36
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
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    I think my problem is I pay too much attention to what the other person is saying, rather than what he or she is doing. With that, thanks for the input everyone, yes even Victor....

    /Brofist man

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    Keep those naughty NTs from generalizing people...someone has to do it .
    This post grammatical errors had been intentionally left uncorrected.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by forzen View Post
    yes even Victor....
    And a really nice way to hypnotize someone is to mimic their body language.

    Ladies-men, of course, know how to hypnotize women by mimicking their body language. And vice versa.

    And I hardly need to point out that this is a manipulation that would appeal to many here.

    Why trouble with MBTI or star signs if you can simply mimic their body language?

    And the only price you pay, as Misty Mountain Rose says, "is missing out on the real magic of two people having a genuine connection".

    And this is the price you pay for tricking another person.

  8. #38
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think one of the things that is useful with body language is that it conveys the majority of what is being said, yet is the most open to being misconstrued or having multiple meanings. Therefore, words are needed to confirm what the intent of the message truly is. However, when words do not match up with body language, the words are the least convincing part of the message. This is why I believe body language matters.

    Perhaps the most important reason for understanding it is so that you are sure that you are conveying the message you intend to convey. For example, PaperOceans may not be lying or looking to escape. However if she is chatting with you and says what a great time she's having, while avoiding eye contact and looking elsewhere frequently, you'll be left with the distinct feeling that she is indeed not having a great time, or at the very least that if something more interesting came along, she'd be out of there. That is unlikely what she intends for people to feel, but may be what they get out of the exchange.

    The other valuable aspect of paying attention to body language is that it takes your attention off of you and puts it on the other person. This allows you to truly give and receive all of the information needed, as well as think about how to put the other person at ease, especially if you are able to notice their discomfort. You can share their joy if that is what they are feeling, or their sadness etc. When you don't notice those things, you miss a lot of what is happening around you.

    Just a few more common ones: slumpy posture may indicate sadness or lack of confidence or weariness. An unblinking look with little facial expression may mean disagreement, or evaluating what is being said. A true smile reaches the eyes instead of just engaging the mouth. People who are lying usually maintain unbroken eye contact rather than shifty eye contact as is commonly thought because they want to see how their listener is reacting to the information. Direct face to face contact is usually more intimate, indicating either affection/interest (when accompanied by smiling, touching, looking into the eyes) or on the opposite end of the spectrum, hostility (usually accompanied by aggressive stance and staring). They say dilated pupils indicate romantic interest, but I hope that's not true because mine are naturally quite dilated even around people I don't like!

    I don't agree with Victor that paying attention to body language is manipulative. It is taking in all of the relevent information to make an appropriate judgement call. Not doing so is like purposefully ignoring the part of the invitation where it says what type of attire is appropriate to wear, or not reading the fine print before signing a document. It doesn't make sense to avoid using all the information that is at our disposal to make an appropriate decision and a fair assessment. It is a large part of what tells us whether we can trust someone or not. Often if something seems a little "off" about someone, it has to do with irregular/inconsistent body language, or their body language disagreeing with their message.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think one of the things that is useful with body language is that it conveys the majority of what is being said, yet is the most open to being misconstrued or having multiple meanings. Therefore, words are needed to confirm what the intent of the message truly is. However, when words do not match up with body language, the words are the least convincing part of the message. This is why I believe body language matters.

    Perhaps the most important reason for understanding it is so that you are sure that you are conveying the message you intend to convey. For example, PaperOceans may not be lying or looking to escape. However if she is chatting with you and says what a great time she's having, while avoiding eye contact and looking elsewhere frequently, you'll be left with the distinct feeling that she is indeed not having a great time, or at the very least that if something more interesting came along, she'd be out of there. That is unlikely what she intends for people to feel, but may be what they get out of the exchange.

    The other valuable aspect of paying attention to body language is that it takes your attention off of you and puts it on the other person. This allows you to truly give and receive all of the information needed, as well as think about how to put the other person at ease, especially if you are able to notice their discomfort. You can share their joy if that is what they are feeling, or their sadness etc. When you don't notice those things, you miss a lot of what is happening around you.

    Just a few more common ones: slumpy posture may indicate sadness or lack of confidence or weariness. An unblinking look with little facial expression may mean disagreement, or evaluating what is being said. A true smile reaches the eyes instead of just engaging the mouth. People who are lying usually maintain unbroken eye contact rather than shifty eye contact as is commonly thought because they want to see how their listener is reacting to the information. Direct face to face contact is usually more intimate, indicating either affection/interest (when accompanied by smiling, touching, looking into the eyes) or on the opposite end of the spectrum, hostility (usually accompanied by aggressive stance and staring). They say dilated pupils indicate romantic interest, but I hope that's not true because mine are naturally quite dilated even around people I don't like!

    I don't agree with Victor that paying attention to body language is manipulative. It is taking in all of the relevent information to make an appropriate judgement call. Not doing so is like purposefully ignoring the part of the invitation where it says what type of attire is appropriate to wear, or not reading the fine print before signing a document. It doesn't make sense to avoid using all the information that is at our disposal to make an appropriate decision and a fair assessment. It is a large part of what tells us whether we can trust someone or not. Often if something seems a little "off" about someone, it has to do with irregular/inconsistent body language, or their body language disagreeing with their message.
    Oh just admit it fidelia, you know you want me. Afterall, your pupils give it away...

    Just kidding [for all the other readers here who may not know what I am kidding]

  10. #40
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think one of the things that is useful with body language is that it conveys the majority of what is being said, yet is the most open to being misconstrued or having multiple meanings. Therefore, words are needed to confirm what the intent of the message truly is. However, when words do not match up with body language, the words are the least convincing part of the message. This is why I believe body language matters.

    Perhaps the most important reason for understanding it is so that you are sure that you are conveying the message you intend to convey. For example, PaperOceans may not be lying or looking to escape. However if she is chatting with you and says what a great time she's having, while avoiding eye contact and looking elsewhere frequently, you'll be left with the distinct feeling that she is indeed not having a great time, or at the very least that if something more interesting came along, she'd be out of there. That is unlikely what she intends for people to feel, but may be what they get out of the exchange.

    The other valuable aspect of paying attention to body language is that it takes your attention off of you and puts it on the other person. This allows you to truly give and receive all of the information needed, as well as think about how to put the other person at ease, especially if you are able to notice their discomfort. You can share their joy if that is what they are feeling, or their sadness etc. When you don't notice those things, you miss a lot of what is happening around you.

    Just a few more common ones: slumpy posture may indicate sadness or lack of confidence or weariness. An unblinking look with little facial expression may mean disagreement, or evaluating what is being said. A true smile reaches the eyes instead of just engaging the mouth. People who are lying usually maintain unbroken eye contact rather than shifty eye contact as is commonly thought because they want to see how their listener is reacting to the information. Direct face to face contact is usually more intimate, indicating either affection/interest (when accompanied by smiling, touching, looking into the eyes) or on the opposite end of the spectrum, hostility (usually accompanied by aggressive stance and staring). They say dilated pupils indicate romantic interest, but I hope that's not true because mine are naturally quite dilated even around people I don't like!

    I don't agree with Victor that paying attention to body language is manipulative. It is taking in all of the relevent information to make an appropriate judgement call. Not doing so is like purposefully ignoring the part of the invitation where it says what type of attire is appropriate to wear, or not reading the fine print before signing a document. It doesn't make sense to avoid using all the information that is at our disposal to make an appropriate decision and a fair assessment. It is a large part of what tells us whether we can trust someone or not. Often if something seems a little "off" about someone, it has to do with irregular/inconsistent body language, or their body language disagreeing with their message.
    Yes i agree with you, it's more enjoyable to know body language while conversing....it might even develop into a more meaningful relationship because of the connecting that can be made with deeper understanding of each other.
    Last edited by forzen; 12-01-2009 at 04:53 PM.
    This post grammatical errors had been intentionally left uncorrected.

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