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  1. #31
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Or maybe these happy people although aware of what can cause them unhappiness, choose to view life as a challenge that won't beat them. That is not to say they won't be unhappy at times, it is an emotion afterall .. It is down to the individual's perspective on life as to how they deal with the unhappy times.
    Wow, did I not give the right answer to this question? That is hilarious.

    If you go back and read what I posted, you'll see that I acknowledged the nebulous nature of an outside perspective of happiness, i.e. Poor Little Rich Girl. I acknowledge that you often can't tell; some people seem like little balls of sunshine externally, but they're dying inside. Some people look like Frankenstein outside but they're happy as a lark internally. Because of this, I included how I distinguish people who seem to be happy. One of my ways for doing this is by noticing how willing and how a person talks about these dark moods. Isn't this what the thread is about? I think it's curious that when I get "dark" about happiness there's an unwillingness to go there. Is there a such thing as the downside of up?

    I'm not talking about being a resilient person and bouncing back when life get's ugly, that's an admirable trait. I'm referring specifically to those happy people who are almost bobbleheaded in their happiness. If one of these "happy" people consistently blows off talking about darker topics, then yes I think it's shallow. The financial crisis example of people blowing it off, whenever it comes up in conversation. I've been around people that say "Let's not talk about this!" and there never seems to be a good time talk talk about more substantial things. I also said that I may not be around them when they do and I may not have the complete picture.

    This is not some minority or thin slice of happy people, although I never implied it was the majority either. I encountered a lot of this in college, but I suppose it's to be expected with younger people because they haven't experienced much. Now when I encounter it, it strikes me as willful ignorance towards life's unpleasantness. I believe this is called staying in one's ivory tower is it not? Evidently it happens often enough for there to be a sociological term to describe it.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #32
    A Benign Tumor PoprocksAndCoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Wow, did I not give the right answer to this question? That is hilarious.

    If you go back and read what I posted, you'll see that I acknowledged the nebulous nature of an outside perspective of happiness, i.e. Poor Little Rich Girl. I acknowledge that you often can't tell; some people seem like little balls of sunshine externally, but they're dying inside. Some people look like Frankenstein outside but they're happy as a lark internally. Because of this, I included how I distinguish people who seem to be happy. One of my ways for doing this is by noticing how willing and how a person talks about these dark moods. Isn't this what the thread is about? I think it's curious that when I get "dark" about happiness there's an unwillingness to go there. Is there a such thing as the downside of up?

    I'm not talking about being a resilient person and bouncing back when life get's ugly, that's an admirable trait. I'm referring specifically to those happy people who are almost bobbleheaded in their happiness. If one of these "happy" people consistently blows off talking about darker topics, then yes I think it's shallow. The financial crisis example of people blowing it off, whenever it comes up in conversation. I've been around people that say "Let's not talk about this!" and there never seems to be a good time talk talk about more substantial things. I also said that I may not be around them when they do and I may not have the complete picture.

    This is not some minority or thin slice of happy people, although I never implied it was the majority either. I encountered a lot of this in college, but I suppose it's to be expected with younger people because they haven't experienced much. Now when I encounter it, it strikes me as willful ignorance towards life's unpleasantness. I believe this is called staying in one's ivory tower is it not? Evidently it happens often enough for there to be a sociological term to describe it.
    It's the people to whom "ignorance is bliss".
    "In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present." -Francis Bacon

    "No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." -George Chakiris

  3. #33
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoprocksAndCoke View Post
    It's the people to whom "ignorance is bliss".
    Yeah, basically and it's plenty of them out there.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #34
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
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    Q1. As a general rule, I'm always directed towards success and solving the problems. 5
    Q2. As of right now, I'm urgently trying to improve my lot in life. 5, When things can be improved, then it should always be given a try.
    Q3. I often joke about other people's problems. 5
    Q4. People should support the good mood in a group. 4
    Q5. Life is so unjust, I almost wish I wouldn't have to take part in it. 1
    Q6. I often get depressed from all those terrible things happening to me. 2
    Q7. I should be treated with dignity, because I'm a human being afterall. 5
    Q8. I don't get that depressed at all when discussing dark topics. 5
    Q9. I wouldn't want to spoil the mood by complaining about my problems. 4
    Q10. If someone loved me, they would listen to my problems and give me comfort. 2, I hate listening to problems, except when they're interesting, so I would rather not talk about my problems, except during PMS.
    Q11. People should understand how they make others feel with what they say. 4
    Q12. If people want respect, they have to treat others with respect. 5
    Q13. I can't relate to most of the stuff that happy people talk about. 1, I just don't consider all the happy people to be really happy. Happiness takes more then 20 hot guys in a hot jacuzzi.
    Q14. Happy people don't seem to have any depth. 2
    Q15. I can tolerate, even enjoy, a lot of depressive ideas. 1
    Q16. If I'm on a bad mood, everyone should be on a bad mood. 1, Not the people that I care about. They should always be happy.
    Q17. I cry with those who cry, and I laugh with those who laugh. 2
    Q18. Some people's personal problems are a joke. 5, When I hate you, they are a joke.
    Q19. Things often turn out bad in my life. 1, When you look at it objectively, things do turn out bad a lot, but I just don't FEEL that way.
    Q20. As a general rule, I'm a happy person. 5
    Q21. Depressive thoughts are always with me. 2
    Q22. Life is easy enough for me to have happy, carefree mood for the most time. 4, not only because of the easiness. I'm an optimist. Except when I have PMS. Then I'm TOO realistic.
    Q23. I can put my feelings aside when I need to do something important. 1
    Q24. If bad enough things happen to me, I just spill it out and make it known to everyone. 1, People hate unhappy people. So you can better pretend being cheerful.
    Q25. My mood is a result of things that have happened to me, and I can't help it. 3
    Q26. I live through my moods very intensively. 2
    Q27. I'm easy to get along with. 3, Just if I like you.
    Q28. I'm such a burden to other people. 1
    Q29. Take me as I am, or leave me be. 5
    Q30. Other people are there to help me with my problems. 1, I hate it when people try to help me. I only ask for help when really necessairy. And even then I feel guilty afterwards.
    I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was obviously on. I used to fly myself and I said, "There's one terrible pilot."
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  5. #35
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    So, we have here Proteanmix, who associates depth with being able to handle good stuff as well as the bad stuff. In the other corner, we have FDG, who dislikes the bad stuff, and possibly goes through a lot of trouble - and depth - to keep it away.

    Am I on the right tracks in here?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #36
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Q1. As a general rule, I'm always directed towards success and solving the problems. -- 4
    Q2. As of right now, I'm urgently trying to improve my lot in life. -- 5
    Q3. I often joke about other people's problems. -- 2
    Q4. People should support the good mood in a group. -- 3
    Q5. Life is so unjust, I almost wish I wouldn't have to take part in it. -- 1
    Q6. I often get depressed from all those terrible things happening to me. -- 2
    Q7. I should be treated with dignity, because I'm a human being afterall. -- 4
    Q8. I don't get that depressed at all when discussing dark topics. -- 3
    Q9. I wouldn't want to spoil the mood by complaining about my problems. -- 4
    Q10. If someone loved me, they would listen to my problems and give me comfort. -- 3
    Q11. People should understand how they make others feel with what they say. -- 5
    Q12. If people want respect, they have to treat others with respect. -- 5
    Q13. I can't relate to most of the stuff that happy people talk about. -- 1
    Q14. Happy people don't seem to have any depth. -- 2
    Q15. I can tolerate, even enjoy, a lot of depressive ideas. -- 3
    Q16. If I'm on a bad mood, everyone should be on a bad mood. -- 1
    Q17. I cry with those who cry, and I laugh with those who laugh. -- 3
    Q18. Some people's personal problems are a joke. -- 4
    Q19. Things often turn out bad in my life. -- 2
    Q20. As a general rule, I'm a happy person. -- 3
    Q21. Depressive thoughts are always with me. -- 2
    Q22. Life is easy enough for me to have happy, carefree mood for the most time. -- 3
    Q23. I can put my feelings aside when I need to do something important. -- 4
    Q24. If bad enough things happen to me, I just spill it out and make it known to everyone. -- 3
    Q25. My mood is a result of things that have happened to me, and I can't help it. -- 2 (?)
    Q26. I live through my moods very intensively. -- 4
    Q27. I'm easy to get along with. -- 4
    Q28. I'm such a burden to other people. -- 1
    Q29. Take me as I am, or leave me be. -- 3
    Q30. Other people are there to help me with my problems. -- 1
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  7. #37
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Q1. As a general rule, I'm always directed towards success and solving the problems. 5 My definition of success is broader than just money. If I achieve my goals or solve the problems, I consider myself successful.
    Q2. As of right now, I'm urgently trying to improve my lot in life. 3 I got hung up on the words "urgently" and "lot". I'm always trying to improve myself, but not necessarily my lot in life. As long as I can get by I'm okay, but I'm not adverse to improving my position in life either.
    Q3. I often joke about other people's problems. 1
    Q4. People should support the good mood in a group. 4
    Q5. Life is so unjust, I almost wish I wouldn't have to take part in it. 3 The thought has crossed my mind at times, but I've been trying to figure out what in my thinking I can change so I can be content in spite of injustice.
    Q6. I often get depressed from all those terrible things happening to me. 2
    Q7. I should be treated with dignity, because I'm a human being afterall. 5 You can leave off everything after the comma though.
    Q8. I don't get that depressed at all when discussing dark topics. 4
    Q9. I wouldn't want to spoil the mood by complaining about my problems. 4
    Q10. If someone loved me, they would listen to my problems and give me comfort. 4 As I would gladly do the same for them. And I would work at solving my problems so that I wouldn't become a big pain in the butt.
    Q11. People should understand how they make others feel with what they say. 5
    Q12. If people want respect, they have to treat others with respect. 5
    Q13. I can't relate to most of the stuff that happy people talk about. 2
    Q14. Happy people don't seem to have any depth. 3 This is a question I've struggled with for a while. Sometimes ignorance would be bliss. I want to be happy, but I also want to be realistic. Are they mutually exclusive? I haven't figured that out yet.
    Q15. I can tolerate, even enjoy, a lot of depressive ideas. 5
    Q16. If I'm in a bad mood, everyone should be in a bad mood. 1 When I'm in a bad mood, what gets me out of it the fastest is feeling like I've been heard and understood. That doesn't mean agreed with, just heard and understood. If I'm not getting that, I leave until the mood passes, but for me the issue may or may not be resolved.
    Q17. I cry with those who cry, and I laugh with those who laugh. 4
    Q18. Some people's personal problems are a joke. 2
    Q19. Things often turn out bad in my life. 1 I have had some bad things happen but, overall, I feel that things have always worked out for me.
    Q20. As a general rule, I'm a happy person. 3 I see myself as always in flux--sometimes happy, sometimes sad, mostly something in between.
    Q21. Depressive thoughts are always with me. 4 Not always.
    Q22. Life is easy enough for me to have happy, carefree mood for the most time. 2 Not right at this moment.
    Q23. I can put my feelings aside when I need to do something important. 4 I have, but sometimes it's been very difficult to do.
    Q24. If bad enough things happen to me, I just spill it out and make it known to everyone. 2 If the bad thing is something that people should know about, such as abuse, then I think it should be put out there--more as a problem to be solved than just a complaint. Unfortunately, I've found that most people don't want to hear about that sort of thing or deal with it.
    Q25. My mood is a result of things that have happened to me, and I can't help it. 4
    Q26. I live through my moods very intensively. 5
    Q27. I'm easy to get along with. 3 Some people think so and others don't.
    Q28. I'm such a burden to other people. 1
    Q29. Take me as I am, or leave me be. 5
    Q30. Other people are there to help me with my problems. 2 I do have a couple of very good friends who are always there for me, but for the most part I've found that people have their own problems to deal with.
    Last edited by Eilonwy; 11-22-2009 at 04:41 PM.
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    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  8. #38
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Ok, what I got from these responses and my talk with the person said in OP, I found out this: We think the same in other respects, but I have easier time than her, more optimistic, having less ability to entertain depressive thoughts without ill effect, and I'm less interested to follow other people's moods.

    So, my optimism was undoing my ability to dig in to people's feelings. Perhaps I thought that optimism is a better stance, my stance, so it should be maintained instead of something else. But, a person's depression may be an important mood for them, too - it may be the only mood they have at a time. So, I should be more understanding of different moods than one of my own.

    When she realized I had less capability to withstand negative feelings, she understood she had almost made me collapse. I had looked so cheerful; she didn't think of my ability to tolerate depressive thoughts.

    So we learned.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #39
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Q1. As a general rule, I'm always directed towards success and solving the problems. -5
    Q2. As of right now, I'm urgently trying to improve my lot in life. - 4
    Q3. I often joke about other people's problems. - 4
    Q4. People should support the good mood in a group. - 3
    Q5. Life is so unjust, I almost wish I wouldn't have to take part in it.- 1
    Q6. I often get depressed from all those terrible things happening to me. - 1
    Q7. I should be treated with dignity, because I'm a human being afterall. - 4
    Q8. I don't get that depressed at all when discussing dark topics. - 5
    Q9. I wouldn't want to spoil the mood by complaining about my problems.- 3
    Q10. If someone loved me, they would listen to my problems and give me comfort. - 4
    Q11. People should understand how they make others feel with what they say. - 3
    Q12. If people want respect, they have to treat others with respect. - 5
    Q13. I can't relate to most of the stuff that happy people talk about. - 1
    Q14. Happy people don't seem to have any depth.- 1
    Q15. I can tolerate, even enjoy, a lot of depressive ideas. - 3
    Q16. If I'm on a bad mood, everyone should be on a bad mood. - 1
    Q17. I cry with those who cry, and I laugh with those who laugh. - 3
    Q18. Some people's personal problems are a joke. - 5
    Q19. Things often turn out bad in my life.- 2
    Q20. As a general rule, I'm a happy person. - 5
    Q21. Depressive thoughts are always with me. - 1
    Q22. Life is easy enough for me to have happy, carefree mood for the most time. - 2
    Q23. I can put my feelings aside when I need to do something important. - 5
    Q24. If bad enough things happen to me, I just spill it out and make it known to everyone.- 1
    Q25. My mood is a result of things that have happened to me, and I can't help it.-
    Q26. I live through my moods very intensively. - 1
    Q27. I'm easy to get along with.- 4
    Q28. I'm such a burden to other people.- 1
    Q29. Take me as I am, or leave me be. - 4
    Q30. Other people are there to help me with my problems. - 1
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  10. #40
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Ok, what I got from these responses and my talk with the person said in OP, I found out this: We think the same in other respects, but I have easier time than her, more optimistic, having less ability to entertain depressive thoughts without ill effect, and I'm less interested to follow other people's moods.

    So, my optimism was undoing my ability to dig in to people's feelings. Perhaps I thought that optimism is a better stance, my stance, so it should be maintained instead of something else. But, a person's depression may be an important mood for them, too - it may be the only mood they have at a time. So, I should be more understanding of different moods than one of my own.

    When she realized I had less capability to withstand negative feelings, she understood she had almost made me collapse. I had looked so cheerful; she didn't think of my ability to tolerate depressive thoughts.

    So we learned.
    This is interesting. I wonder if being optimistic as a trait in some way keeps people from identifying with negative or darker moods within themselves and others. Like I said before, you can see when shadows of understanding enter someone's eyes and they can directly relate to what you've experienced.

    I guess this is what I was getting at in my answers...that sometimes those "ignorance is bliss" people tend to gloss over or are dismissive of the sorrow of others, which to me can come across as shallow for reasons I've already explained.

    A good balance between this would be to acknowledge the hurt a person has felt/feel, don't ignore it or run from it, allow them to feel it, then help them to move into a place where they see they have more options than what they believed they had before.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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