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  1. #71
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    That one rang strange to me - oh, obviously I know it's a big must, generally. But I tend to see my health, body, lifespan, etc., as something I have to give for the causes my values prompt me to, and not something that's there for my own benefit. Odd, perhaps, but true

    Of course that does mean I have to look after my health to a certain extent, so that I've got it *to* give. But it's not an end in itself. Maybe because my body and me have never been on very close terms...
    Sure...that's true...but I guess what I mean is that without health, nothing else matters. Then again if you have integrity and balance, health comes along with it...

    So my values stand as follows:

    1. balance
    2. integrity
    3. education and success

    because everything follows from those three things (all the other values, I mean).
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  2. #72
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Valuing success... wouldn't that have the danger of judging people harshly who don't manage to "succeed"?
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Valuing success... wouldn't that have the danger of judging people harshly who don't manage to "succeed"?
    Good question. No, I don't think so. It is more of a self-imposed measurement of my own abilities rather than judging others. Quite frankly, I figure other people either want to invest the time and effort and have natural abilities, or they do not; judging them is not going to change this fundamental fact. So why should I get upset over it?

    However, I CAN influence my own behavior, objectives, and optimizing the potential *I* have, so the judgment is reserved only for me.
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  4. #74
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Good question. No, I don't think so. It is more of a self-imposed measurement of my own abilities rather than judging others. Quite frankly, I figure other people either want to invest the time and effort and have natural abilities, or they do not; judging them is not going to change this fundamental fact. So why should I get upset over it?

    However, I CAN influence my own behavior, objectives, and optimizing the potential *I* have, so the judgment is reserved only for me.
    Okay, fair enough. Maybe I'm still not really understanding the point of what values are then, after all!

    I kinda thought it was s'posed to be things you value and apply as criteria for judging/deciding everything - yourself, others, situations, choices, jobs - everything. Ideally, whilst still acknowledging that these are subjective judgements, and so not making them judgemental.
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  5. #75
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Okay, well, I've mulled this idea over in my brain, and I guess it depends....

    It gives me a pit in my stomach to admit this fact, but yes, to a certain extent, it also influences the way I view other people. Not all the time, mind you. But it does to a certain extent.

    In addition, it influences the way I view situations. Can I grow with this or not? If not, it's going in the trash can, and that includes jobs and career opportunities. That also includes relationships: do my friends have a positive or negative influence on me? Even family. I cut off anything that does not help me grow in either a tangible or intangible way. I do not tolerate people dragging me down. I'm very hard-nosed that way.
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  6. #76
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Alright, well how does that tie in with other people's growth? I mean, is it a case of wanting others in your life to be beneficial for your growth, but you don't see yourself as having a part to play in the growth of other people? Or do you perhaps not believe that helping others to grow, even though they don't help you consciously in return, would actually help you grow anyway?

    It seems to me that one of the greatest challenges of being a person that holds values and uses them to make decisions, is to consistently and equally apply them to everything and everyone, rather than sorta applying those to yourself that you find most agreeable to hold to, but not consciously holding others to them, and then conversely holding others to values that you don't live up to yourself. That's gotta be a Herculean task, for sure.
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  7. #77
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Alright, well how does that tie in with other people's growth? I mean, is it a case of wanting others in your life to be beneficial for your growth, but you don't see yourself as having a part to play in the growth of other people? Or do you perhaps not believe that helping others to grow, even though they don't help you consciously in return, would actually help you grow anyway?

    It seems to me that one of the greatest challenge of being a person that holds values, is to consistently and equally apply them to everything and everyone, rather than sorta applying those to yourself that you find most agreeable to hold to, but not consciously holding others to them, and then conversely holding others to values that you don't live up to yourself. That's gotta be a Herculean task, for sure.
    Well, let me give you a concrete example. Teaching. I want my pupils to succeed, and I put a lot of pressure on myself to provide the best possible lessons, support, guidance, etc. to help them be successful. However, it is very frustrating to me when I see students who do not care, do not get better, etc., to which I again put the blame on myself (I must not have done it right, delivered it properly, prepared enough, etc.)

    Another example. If I notice someone is being abusive or manipulative in a relationship, I cut them off. If I notice someone is taking advantage of me, I will call them on it, expect a change, or leave. If I notice someone is deliberately trying to hold me down, I will leave the friendship. I just don't tolerate crap like that. Life is too short for that kind of nonsensical gibberish.
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  8. #78
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    I see. I tend to see myself as having a more long-term role in the lives of others; sticking with people through their challenging behaviour and finding ways through it is something I find provides a lot of opportunities for growth on both sides, more so than simply cutting them off. I think this stems from my valuing of Love and my belief in its transforming power.
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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    I see. I tend to see myself as having a more long-term role in the lives of others; sticking with people through their challenging behaviour and finding ways through it is something I find provides a lot of opportunities for growth on both sides, more so than simply cutting them off. I think this stems from my valuing of Love and my belief in its transforming power.
    You should not think that I just cut people off at a moment's notice. However, you cannot really change people. Either you awaken something they did not know they had, or they choose to remain ignorant. So you can only focus on those people who want to listen, since you can only help a minority of people anyway. Then, it's a good investment of time, effort, and energy.
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  10. #80
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    You should not think that I just cut people off at a moment's notice. However, you cannot really change people. Either you awaken something they did not know they had, or they choose to remain ignorant. So you can only focus on those people who want to listen, since you can only help a minority of people anyway. Then, it's a good investment of time, effort, and energy.
    Well, I wasn't commenting on you or what you do, just saying how I see things differently, why and what effect that has on my choices. I'm using much of what people are saying in this thread to help shed light on attitudes I wasn't consciously aware I had, to figure out what my values are.

    I agree that you can't change people, but you can help to motivate them to change themselves through understanding. Often it takes a very long time, but that's okay with me. I guess I'm just naturally quite patient and forgiving - it's fine if other people are not, I don't judge them for that. Maybe it's easier for me to be that way as I don't have other things demanding on my emotional energy within the home as many other people do, so I'm able to give more of it to more people outside of the home. Also, my own emotional state isn't of very great importance to me - probably also possible because I'm usually not even aware of it. I can understand how somebody who's more in tune with their emotions might find it harder to expose themselves longterm to situations that produce negative feelings, and so their own emotional state would be of more concern to them than mine is to me. Maybe, I dunno. I'm just musing
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