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  1. #61
    Junior Member camille's Avatar
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    I think part of the reason, possibly the most important or only reason, American males have difficulty figuring out their values is because we don't let them grow into men. We treat them like little boys until they are eighteen, or sometimes older, then say, "Time to grow up and take care of your responsibilities." We don't let them experience what it is like to grow into a man until we put full responsibilities on them.

    My values:

    openness and candor
    accountability
    It is easy to be beautiful; it is difficult to appear so...Frank O'Hara

  2. #62
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    I think I have narrowed it down to 2 things..

    Love and Personal Success

    Every other value is just working towards those 2 ultimate goals.. being able to live with myself and others, unconditionally

  3. #63
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    One of my core values is to be true to myself.

    Dont worry, be happy

    Integrity

  4. #64
    Systematic chaos Cenomite's Avatar
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    The only values that I constantly live by are:

    1. Being true to yourself
    2. Being honest with yourself and others

    But even those can be changed if I think that it would be right in-terms of a certain situation. I don't really understand living by static values.

    Could someone who does live by a strong set of static values explain to me why you live that way, and why you think it is best? I'd be curious
    The probability that I was procrastinating when I was typing this post:

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    Eh, I'll finish it later.

  5. #65
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camille View Post
    I think part of the reason, possibly the most important or only reason, American males have difficulty figuring out their values is because we don't let them grow into men. We treat them like little boys until they are eighteen, or sometimes older, then say, "Time to grow up and take care of your responsibilities." We don't let them experience what it is like to grow into a man until we put full responsibilities on them.
    Whilst that's certainly true, I wouldn't underestimate the influence of the pressure on males to repress emotions, since values are very much attached to emotional responses. What you value is largely based on how things make you feel. If you're programmed (by parents, society, biology, whatever) to ignore or suppress the way you feel, how are you to know what you value?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher View Post
    duty is important to me, but that is not the word i was looking for. i was trying to define a concept in my mind of 'doing the right thing when it is not expected of you'. i realized it fits into integrity, it is integrity with courage.
    I think I know what you mean. Doing the right thing because you want to, because you can do no other whilst still living with yourself, rather than simply because it's expected or because you fear the consequences of not doing. Doing right for its own sake?

    can you describe authenticity and sincerity? how are they different to you?
    authenticity is very important to me too, it is one of the things i wrote down and considered. but i realized, for me, authenticity follows from Integrity and Action. if i act on my integrity, authenticity will naturally follow/be the result.
    I'll give it a go, tomorrow... afternoon, probably, when I'm neither drunk, nor hungover (as I probably will be in the morning).

    I actually have a custom made keyboard layout that's labelled "drunk", to make it easier for me to type whilst drunk in a way that makes me seem sober

    Camille - you hit on a good one there with Accountability. That's got me thinking! But I think for me, that one's included in Integrity - to refuse to take responsibility and be accountable for your actions would go against the value of integrity. But saying that explicitly certainly helps to crystallise it somewhat!

    Those who've talked about "being honest/true to yourself/others" - in light of the discussions above, how would you define that, exactly? What does that entail for you?
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
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  6. #66
    Junior Member camille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Whilst that's certainly true, I wouldn't underestimate the influence of the pressure on males to repress emotions, since values are very much attached to emotional responses. What you value is largely based on how things make you feel. If you're programmed (by parents, society, biology, whatever) to ignore or suppress the way you feel, how are you to know what you value?
    I think maybe I'm seeing it differently because of the 'make everyone feel equal' parenting style we've been exposing our children to. In that situation, parents do what they can to make sure their children don't feel anything but happy or content all the time. All the giving in parents do, not giving their children responsibilities, playing sports and 'everyone's a winner'.

    Our children, especially males, haven't been learning what emotions are more than they have been pushed to repress them.
    It is easy to be beautiful; it is difficult to appear so...Frank O'Hara

  7. #67
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camille View Post
    I think maybe I'm seeing it differently because of the 'make everyone feel equal' parenting style we've been exposing our children to. In that situation, parents do what they can to make sure their children don't feel anything but happy or content all the time. All the giving in parents do, not giving their children responsibilities, playing sports and 'everyone's a winner'.

    Our children, especially males, haven't been learning what emotions are more than they have been pushed to repress them.
    Ha, mine certainly have, but I'm not your average parent!

    I've just realised that Discovery and Adventure are really big motivators for me...
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
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  8. #68
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Mine are interrelated:

    Broad perspective and balance

    Quote Originally Posted by camille View Post
    I think maybe I'm seeing it differently because of the 'make everyone feel equal' parenting style we've been exposing our children to. In that situation, parents do what they can to make sure their children don't feel anything but happy or content all the time. All the giving in parents do, not giving their children responsibilities, playing sports and 'everyone's a winner'.

    Our children, especially males, haven't been learning what emotions are more than they have been pushed to repress them.
    I agree. The bolded portion has a number of implicit problems. It implies that in order to be acceptable, one must be a winner, so if everyone isn't, then it is necessary to pretend. It implies false acceptance. It might be attempting to take a holistic approach, but with the kind of fixation on winning people have, I'm not sure it always accomplishes that. I prefer a holistic and honest approach that is truthful about varying skill levels, but also truthful about what it means to be a human being. I don't see how a person can fully embrace the value of self unless they can fully appreciate another person, including their abilities and effort.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  9. #69
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Little Linguist - that's way too many to be just your CORE values! You need to do this part:



    Anyway, to me those things just look like a list of virtues or qualities... I don't get what makes something a value... I mean you have to value it, obviously, but surely all of us value good things to some extent or other, and then have our own favourite good things? Does that mean "core values" is another way of saying "my favourite good things out of all the good things there are that I know of"??

    But anyway, I've thought of another one for me: authenticity.
    Um, okay...well damn, that's hard. Let's see. Core values. No more than 5?! WTF?

    Okay we'll give it a shot:

    Balance (because with balance comes confidence, discipline, peace of mind, wisdom, self-reliance, and a good marriage)

    Education and success (because with that, optimally you can engage your creativity, have knowledge, have financial security, have a good marriage and family, strive for growth, develop self-reliance, feel fulfillment, and have independence)

    Integrity (because with that comes honesty, kindness, freedom for self and others, marriage, peace of mind, truth, authenticity, etc.)

    Health (because without physical and mental health, it's all for shit anyway).
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  10. #70
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Health (because without physical and mental health, it's all for shit anyway).
    That one rang strange to me - oh, obviously I know it's a big must, generally. But I tend to see my health, body, lifespan, etc., as something I have to give for the causes my values prompt me to, and not something that's there for my own benefit. Odd, perhaps, but true

    Of course that does mean I have to look after my health to a certain extent, so that I've got it *to* give. But it's not an end in itself. Maybe because my body and me have never been on very close terms...
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
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