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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I didn't have it in school but I read the book, since it was an interesting perspective. I'm not sure about the order myself, but he writes that everyone is on multiple levels at the same time (not having all the security met while being mostly on level three, for example) so, I think that is why it seems to me like they are not in the same order than they are in my mind.
    I would imagine for me that, self actualization would lead to esteem.. Which would then lead to love/belonging.. but then I guess that's where my "values" would come into play.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Yeah, you're lucky there - I feel the same way if I'm asked to explain the promptings of intuition For those of us not as plugged into their F as you are, though, this has to begin as a laborious and academic process before it can blossom into anything like the natural value based judgements that people like you can so easily make in situations where logic is useless and people like me stand around feeling vulnerable and panicky.

    Edit - Bloody typical though. Supposed to get T's talking about how to get in touch with their values, and so far only one T has responded amongst the F's that come to gloat! Except Night, but he doesn't count - he was just being a butt-munch
    I'm not gloating! I actually wish I could list out my values. You'd think if I act from my values then I'd be able to list them at the drop of a hat. Then I could get some use from the whole thing. Yet that aspect of self help stuff is most difficult. It's easier to set goals and so forth than to look at values.

    EDIT: I tried doing it at the drop of a hat and got

    love
    creativity
    learning
    skilfulness
    adaptability

    In some ways all five are the same thing. Or they blend together as one thing in my mind.

  3. #43
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Control
    Power
    Discipline
    Tradition
    God




    Just kidding...
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  4. #44
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    Mostly it has to do with having a clear conscience, and not wanting to be a hypocrite.

    I feel guilty when I lie because I want people to be honest with me.

    And just because I know people are often dishonest with me, I don't believe that gives me the right to be dishonest.

    It's related to personal integrity again, I guess.
    I see. Integrity's apparently a very strong value for me too, though I don't personally see that the same way as you. But thanks for that, it's quite enlightening because you sound a lot like an ENFP I know, and you've given me a lightbulb moment (PING!) about something we're often at loggerheads about.

    Anyway, I'm back from the quick dash with the dog and I've thought of another value: constructiveness. And that's helped me put my finger on why Wonka's reasoning about lying doesn't sound like something I'd relate to. I need to feel that what I'm doing is long-term constructive for the world at large, if possible. I think I'd feel that avoiding telling a lie that would lead to a greater long-term good, went *against* my conscience. To do that just to keep my slate clean as it were, would feel rather self-indulgent and precious, to me.

    The type of honesty I prefer people to practice towards me has little to do with truth telling in that sense and more to do with honestly (i.e. sincerely) acting in my best interests, or at least, not deliberately acting against my interests. My valuing of freewill forces me to concede that people have a right to use their own best judgement to discharge any sort of trust I place in them, so I can't hold it against them if they see fit to do that by the use of a strataegic untruth, with sincere motives - to do so would offend my integrity!

    So I guess that's another value I've discovered for myself: sincerity, meaning sincerity of intent and effort, in a sort of "ends justify the means" way that makes "telling fibs" a very minor offence. Though, that doesn't mean I think the ends always justify the means in any situation, generally.

    So far I've got: authenticity, integrity, sincerity, freewill and constructiveness. I'm not completely sure about all of the order there, but at least I'm getting somewhere.

    I think that, rather perversely, it's my valuing of authenticity that also forces me to cut Lying some slack. I just tried to explain that in words, but it got way too long, so I hit the backspace key. Something to do with Taoism and not denying the innate nature, and kids lying at very young ages without being taught it...

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I'm not gloating!
    Yeah I know, I was just teasing

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    EDIT: I tried doing it at the drop of a hat and got

    love
    creativity
    learning
    skilfulness
    adaptability

    In some ways all five are the same thing. Or they blend together as one thing in my mind.
    Awesome. Adaptability can be my sixth one, totally Sixth in number that is, not priority. I haven't figured out the priorities yet. But since it's 2.30am for me, I'll have to stop this and go to bed. Just when I was starting to have fun! Gah!

    Still no other T's posting. Revealing, no? Chickens, all of 'em!
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

  5. #45
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    Here's a visual example of my core values at work:
    [youtube="qtcWlk3cLUQ"]Integrity in action[/youtube]

  6. #46
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    creativity, nonviolence, truth, beauty, generosity, kindness, nonjudgmental attitude
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  7. #47
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    My values in no real order from that list-

    Integrity
    Freedom
    Balance
    Reason
    Wisdom

    Reasoning-

    I absolutely have to have integrity. Other people I interact with have to have integrity as well.

    I would hate to not have freedom. And with freedom comes other things on that list, like adventure, happiness, independence

    Balance. I strive to maintain balance within myself. I also have a belief in karma somewhat. I just seek to be well rounded overall, from getting experience from life, being a good person but not being a pushover, etc.

    Reason. I hate irrationality, and EVERYTHING absolutely must make sense that I do and that other people do in some way. It really irks me when it doesn't. I get confused, since I just assume that everyone is rational but they end up not being in a lot of cases.

    Wisdom. I want to get wisened up, I want more experience in life, I want to be able to help people with my knowledge and experience in life. There are way too many reasons to list for this value.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  8. #48
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    1. Love
    2. Achievement
    3. Originality
    4. Self-expression
    5. Independence
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  9. #49
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default A discovery worth making

    I think my three values collapse down to one - mutual dancing.

    So this is the one thing that I consider is worth doing.

    This is very handy as I can now devote all my resources to realising this one value.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I think my three values collapse down to one - mutual dancing.

    So this is the one thing that I consider is worth doing.

    This is very handy as I can now devote all my resources to realising this one value.
    That is a great discovery. I have the feeling all mine boil down to one thing, but I can't put my finger on it, yet.

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