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  1. #11
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I would agree that it is highly variable. I was going by Lenore Thomson's function order. In her listing, it goes Fi Ne are the top two functions for INFP, and Si Te are the bottom two. The whole set, in order would be: Fi Ne Ti Se Ni Fe Si Te.

    Keep in mind I'm going from memory (and trying to mimic the alternation patterns). Also note that the Thomson's listing for INFP (and ISFP, I think) in their individual entries in her book is incorrect (Fi isn't even first for either... clearly a cut and paste error). In the "master" listings in her book, though, they are correct (and consistent with her layout of the other types).

    I find that Thomson's type listing fits my subjective experience really well. Te is undoubtedly the thing I find most painful and unnatural for me. Facts and details (Si) are difficult for me to focus on unless it's in support of something I really care about. Fe doesn't come easily and can be a blind spot (and I'm hardly the only INFP who is not an Fe master, just look at the "INFJ/INFP Points of Contention" thread).

    On the other hand, my Ti is pretty good, and I can, in the right mood, just get lost in the sensory input of the moment.

    Anyway, I agree that the middle set is much more variable in practice. I also freely admit that I like Thomson's ordering because it fits me, personally, better. Your mileage may vary.
    Oh good, this sounds a lot more like my experience too! The first four are how I'd guess my order to go. After that it's harder to tell. It's going to be something like that though.

    (BTW, I am curious if there are correlations between functions and Enneagram types. I identify both with INFP and Enneagram 5, and I'm wondering if higher than usual Ti is related to that. Of course, might be a 4w5, but I don't think I have morbid ideation.)
    Are you usually a happy person? I only get these fixations during or just before a very low mood. Maybe happy 4s don't have the morbid ideation.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Yo, Compulsiverambler, I'm the same way. Minus the death thoughts.

    I go through depressive phases that usually last less than a week like you described. And like yours, mines come every few months. But they're intense. I've never thought about suicide because they've never been that bad, but I've found myself questioning whether or not all of these things I do are worth it or not...and feelings of not belonging anywhere...and feelings of a fear of not being able to express myself to the world.

    At first, one would think this is dominant Fi, but it actually isn't as Black Cat said on the first page. It's Enneagram Type 4. And, oddly enough, I am a very strong Enneagram type 4..which answers a lot of questions for us.

    You're not alone, my friend. Push through, never let it take you over the edge. But have time to feel it, and embrace it, because it's one of the most extreme things life has to bring...and think of the person you'd be after it all..what a great thing to look back at..all of those lonely days standing on the edge of the cliff. But you come back..you do..and with the wisdom, respect, and emotional experience.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  3. #13
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
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    This may sound odd, but I've found that I have a high mood/low mood that pretty much follows the moon cycle. The only reason I noticed this, was because in grad school I had night classes and I would walk home from class at night, and eventually I realized that my moods coincided with new moons and full moons. When there is a full moon, I often stay up most of that night or all of that night, in fact, because I have so much energy. On the other hand, during the new moon, I feel zapped and have very a low mood in addition to having very little energy.
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM

  4. #14
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I never have this...usually either I'm upbeat or angry :steam::steam: but never depressed
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #15
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    It's interesting that you get something similar. It doesn't sound quite the same but the time spans are the same. May I ask what your gender is? I wonder how much of it might be affected by hormone cycles. I know some people's cause serious problems. I don't have the symptoms of PMDD though; I don't get any physical changes or discomfort at the same time. Still, could be related. I will start recording the dates I think. I wouldn't hesitate to take something to interfere with my hormones if that could help. I'm not using the damned things for anything!
    Hi,

    I am female, but it isn't a monthly thing for me. My mood doesn't show any cyclical pattern really (I pretty much just get zits at 'that time'). As an aside, there have been a number of studies on women that suggest premenstrual moodiness isn't nearly as common as people think, and that the majority of women who believe they feel more depressed or irritable around menstruation don't actually show this pattern when they track their moods on a daily basis. Much of the time it has to do with attribution: a woman thinking, 'oh, it must be the time of month' if she feels bad before menstruation and attributing it to something else at another time of the month.

    Of course, that doesn't mean no women experience that, just that it isn't the norm the way people seem to think. So tracking your moods for awhile is a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    Soft bipolar is another term for bipolar II or cyclothymia, isn't it? I don't think I've ever had the symptoms of a hypomanic episode, and I don't remember ever having a good mood I considered destructive afterwards, so I don't think it's that.
    I've heard it defined that way, but I've also heard some speculation that some recurring depressions might have something in common with bipolar, even if the "highs" don't consist of anything more than normal moods. No idea if that has any validity. I just did a search for it and couldn't find anything with that alternative definition, so never mind. I think most bipolar mood phases would last longer than you're describing anyways. Just throwing it out as a possibility.

    Another thought: you said something about the "long period as a teenager". Did your moods last longer then? I know I had longer depressed periods when I was younger, so I'm thinking coming out of them sooner is a good sign.

  6. #16
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    I'm seeing a pattern here... Introvert Feelers?
    The lone ENTJ on this thread can't relate. This ENTP can't relate either.

    Even in my most dark - introspecting - picking at my own bad feelings moods (I had them quite lot in my adolescence. Even now I can have it, but it's very weak compared to years ago), there were always things to be interested in. Like literature, physics and countless short-lived interests.

  7. #17
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    After all these threads, I'm starting to think that NFs have the hardest time of the temperaments, perhaps even extroverted ones. I can't really relate either, though I think I get what you're saying.

  8. #18
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    Hi,

    I am female, but it isn't a monthly thing for me. My mood doesn't show any cyclical pattern really (I pretty much just get zits at 'that time'). As an aside, there have been a number of studies on women that suggest premenstrual moodiness isn't nearly as common as people think, and that the majority of women who believe they feel more depressed or irritable around menstruation don't actually show this pattern when they track their moods on a daily basis. Much of the time it has to do with attribution: a woman thinking, 'oh, it must be the time of month' if she feels bad before menstruation and attributing it to something else at another time of the month.

    Of course, that doesn't mean no women experience that, just that it isn't the norm the way people seem to think. So tracking your moods for awhile is a good idea.
    Yeah I will do. I was wrong about there having to be physical symptoms I think, it can be all psychological ones. The symptoms just have to come and go at precise times of the cycle the for it to be PMDD, but apparently the criteria may be changed because some think they exclude too many people.


    I've heard it defined that way, but I've also heard some speculation that some recurring depressions might have something in common with bipolar, even if the "highs" don't consist of anything more than normal moods. No idea if that has any validity. I just did a search for it and couldn't find anything with that alternative definition, so never mind. I think most bipolar mood phases would last longer than you're describing anyways. Just throwing it out as a possibility.

    Another thought: you said something about the "long period as a teenager". Did your moods last longer then? I know I had longer depressed periods when I was younger, so I'm thinking coming out of them sooner is a good sign.
    Yeah, I suppose it's possible some people's unipolar depression has more in common neurologically with bipolar depressions and would benefit from the same drugs. At the moment, you can be diagnosed with bipolar disorder if you have hypomanic episodes but no major depressive episodes (i.e. cyclothymia) so it would be no great leap to the other way round. I'm pretty sure most NHS doctors aren't going to agree to treat someone with bipolar drugs if they don't meet the criteria though. They go by the book here. But if I ever get to the point where I've tried a bunch of treatments and they don't work, I'll bear it in mind. So far I've never tried any kind of antidepressant because I'm worried about them making it worse before making it better, or making my ADHD symptoms worse (and if anything's going to lead to me killing myself, it's that happening, because they cause so much failure and anxiety).

    There were long periods from late childhood through adolescence in which I probably met the criteria for major depressive episodes and dysthymic disorder. But I think they were just perfectly understandable reactions to what I was dealing with at the time. It's actually surprising to me that they didn't start sooner. This is different because there's no clear circumstantial trigger and it's my perspective, thoughts and expectations that change.

  9. #19
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    After all these threads, I'm starting to think that NFs have the hardest time of the temperaments, perhaps even extroverted ones. I can't really relate either, though I think I get what you're saying.
    I don't know about that. XNFJs don't seem especially prone to it. ENFJs seem among the most emotionally stable types, on average. ENFPs seem more prone to anger than to ruminating on dark thoughts.

    I think BlackCat's likely right about it being more common in 4s. Having said that, I see myself in 6w5 descriptions just as much as in 4w5 descriptions. Not in actual 5 descriptions, though. Competence is not one of my basic desires or priorities. Having a sense of security, and having self-awareness both are, and they're both achieved by withdrawing and thinking things over (5 wing). Maybe I have two Enneagram types. Why not, they don't seem mutually exclusive.

  10. #20
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    By the way BlackCat, if you're reading, what about me made you think 4w5?

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