What are your experiences with getting psychotherapy?

[Economica]

Thanks for the feedback! Just a quick reply from work: You guys saw this part, right?

I was trying to convince him that I had acted badly (so we could move on to talking about what had caused me to do so).

proximo, your point about exercising humility and giving up judgment is exactly why it took me several hours to grudgingly accept that continuing to see him would be a poor investment.

How do you foresee my session trajectory with a therapist who spends an hour insisting that I am holding myself to an impossible standard when I describe the behavior with which I am dissatisfied and want help, in the process rationalizing actions he would no doubt decry as abhorrent if he heard them described from the victim's perspective? proximo, you probably don't know me very well, but Athenian, you're an old-timer. Do you really think I need a hand-holding enabler as a therapist, someone who is so taken in by me that they refuse to believe that I could be the one with the problem? It's not exactly like I'm on the little.bad.apple end of the Sweet Dreams spectrum here.

I would have to bring in other people (and remember the 7-hour round-trip here) to defend "their side" just to convince him to start talking about what I'm there and ready to talk about. (I wonder if he would react the same way even if I embellished that I had been violent...)

I think I need someone who is neither charmed nor confounded by me but who can take in all the information I provide and make something of that.

Edit: Me and my quick replies.

 

[Mole]

What have been your experiences?

The problem with most therapies is that they presume there is something wrong with you, while evolution is only concerned with what is right with you.

So I was struck by the therapist William Reich who plainly loved life. So I found an excellent Reichian therapist, Lara Amber, who was trained at the Radix Institute in New Mexico.

And like evolution itself, Lara Amber was concerned with what was right with me.

And I breath deeply just thinking of her. And my feet start to move as I remember her voice. And I can't help myself from dancing, and wanting to dance with you.

 

[Mole]

Of course therapies are secular substitutes for religion. And most religions presume there is something wrong with you, such as Original Sin or Bad Karma. So naturally most therapies, like religion, presume there is something wrong with you.

And what you look for, you find.

 

[bcvcdc]

Most therapies presume something wrong, as in every other therapist, yeah. My experience was different though. My therapist was himself more of a normal, philosophical theorist with whom I, as an abnormal, crazy gal, just really couldn't get along. He talked like he was understanding me, when in fact he couldn't possibly understand at all. Nor could I understand him. I mean, really, how is one to get anything from therapy when it goes like that.

 

[Xenon]

Damn, sorry you didn't feel he was a good match for you. It can be hard to find someone who is. I'd personally give him a couple more chances to see if he's on to something, especially since first meetings are often awkward.

While I generally agree that people should normally give a therapist time and consideration, it is a problem if the therapist spends so much time pushing his own views that he doesn't bother to listen to you. He should be listening to what you are saying, even if he doesn't agree. There's lots of information to be gained about a person from listening to their viewpoints, to how they see their problems, even if you have different ideas. And particularly at this point, getting to know you and hear you is what he should be trying to do, and that should be a higher priority than trying to get you to accept his opinions.

I’ve learned that, personally, I get a lot more out of psychotherapy if I show up at the session with a succinct, bullet-point summary of whatever I want to work on. In between sessions I’d usually journal like crazy, which would really help me single out the issues that were bothering me the most. Then- within the 24 hours before the session- I’d condense it into a list. And I’d prioritize the list by putting the points that bothered me the most at the top. More often than not, I wouldn’t even make it to the bottom of the list by the end of the session.

It also helped when I formed specific questions about each of the points. To figure out which questions to ask the therapist, I’d look at my list and ask myself why I need help with each of the points. Whatever questions I wouldn't be able to answer myself are the questions I’d toss at the therapist.

Oh lord, I wish I were that organized and businesslike. I did write some emails to him, which would pretty much be a mish-mash of thoughts and feelings and analysis, and we'd usually talk about them in our next session. He told me I was eloquent and expressive in my writing and understood myself very well, so that wasn't a problem. It was just the whole planning and action part. He was very non-directive, and maybe I needed more of that. I'm not always good at making coherent, long-term plans and sticking to them on my own. I start to think of something I can do, think of all the problems I might have and back off, start to think of something else, worry and back off...

Then again, I'm seeing someone now who does act more directive, and it annoys me and isn't helpful. It might have to do with him not understanding me well though.

I think it's important to find a therapist who will meet your specific needs, and what you specifically desire out of the process. For my own situation at the time, I mostly just needed a listening ear/empathizer/supporter, and through the process she said a few things that sparked something in my mind and cleared my mind out -- just a different approach to the entire situation.

I ended up ceasing to go because I no longer needed the 'Listener'. She was really skilled at Relating - I think that was her strength as a therapist - but by the end of it I no longer needed someone who only related, I would have preferred instead a therapist who could give me *actionable items* to actually work on - giving me a game plan, as such. Being more probing, being more hardcore in the end and pushing me/challenging me.

Yeah. I'd think that was one of my therapist's main strengths too. And I do believe it helped me feel better temporarily, especially since I was so isolated, but it wasn't enough for making lasting changes.

That sounds extremely familiar. I don't know what they hope to achieve with that kind of crap. I suppose it all sounds very PC and that they're afraid to be accused of railroading you or putting words into your mouth. Some of them don't want to be in a position where you can say they "made" you do or say things you didn't want to or feel ready for; I suspect that's what's behind that approach, a lot of the time.

Well, he often told me it would be "unfair" to assume what I'm thinking or what I want, or "inappropriate" to decide what we should talk about. And that he wanted to leave room for me to talk about something else that hadn't been on our agenda previously, so he'd ask me what I wanted to discuss every day. Still, I'd have preferred it if he'd just asked questions about what I'd written to him or what we'd discussed previously, especially when I'd have trouble getting started. It would have been better than nothing, and it might have led to something productive eventually. And, I hated repeating myself, so it annoyed me when he'd ask about things we'd already discussed, as if we'd never talked about it before.

He seemed almost overly cautious with me at times. He was very careful not to ask me leading questions or assume anything at all. That often led to me having to state things that seemed so obvious I felt silly saying them outright.

Another approach I encountered was the one where they take up most of the session with detailing to you their plan and asking if you understand and are okay with it. I parodied it once to a friend who asked how the therapy session went. It was like, I came in and he said "Right, now, what we're going to do today, i'm just going to tell you first what I plan for us to do today, and you can tell me what you think, are you okay with that? Do you understand that? Well, what I wanted to do was that, well, after you came in I'd greet you, then we'd check that you were okay with that greeting and I'd get some feedback off you about how that went, then maybe you could try greeting me, and I'll give you some feedback on that, and then we could try sitting down. Are you okay with sitting down? Just tell me if you feel I'm pushing you too hard here, it's no use if we go too fast, is it? So, if you're alright with that, then we can start on our greeting and see how that goes, and then we'll take it from there and see if we need to adjust the plan, depending on the feedback you give me..."

I was like,

Wow. I haven't experienced anything like that. Yet.

Well, best wishes to you Economica, whatever you decide.

 

[Totenkindly]

Sorry it didn't work out, Eco. Glad you saw the incompatibility up front and didn't waste your time. I'm also surprised a psychoanalyst talked so much; isn't that something that gets in the way of what they're trying to accomplish? (I'm thinking he should spend much of the session just asking you leading questions and trying to get at your subconscious processes.)

I wasn't planning to contribute at all, despite having spent 6-7 years in therapy, because I wasn't technically doing psychoanalysis which is what I thought you were interested in. I think I spent the first few years with a shrink doing half-hour sessions, and her primary value was to get me on meds (which did help stabilize things at the time) + help me get used to talking to someone I didn't know about my feelings. But it wasn't really psychoanalysis, she was much more a pragmatist and had hints of CBT where we would assess my responses/perceptions of things and then develop new behaviors of dealing with them.

When I finally went into hour-long therapy with someone else in the practice, she used an informal brand of Schema Therapy (she didn't use the word, I just realized that's what it was), which mixes CBT with some "healthy parenting" in order to compensate for perspectives I developed in childhood that have been not just detrimental to me but inaccurate. Once you change the scheme through which you view the world, it's far easier to change the maladjusted behavior.

 

[SilkRoad]

I had cognitive behavioural therapy - six sessions, I think - for a few months this summer, for a phobia. I'd never had therapy before.

It's hard to say yet how helpful it was because it was for fear of flying and I've only taken one short round-trip flight since starting the therapy (just before I finished). It went ok, certainly better than some flights in the past year (which is when the phobia became a problem) but at the moment I have no flights planned as I have too many other things to worry about in my life (like getting a proper job!)... I will get a better idea when I start flying a bit more regularly again.

The therapist seemed quite good and there were some relaxation techniques I learned which I think helped. We also talked about thought-challenging, and the fact that anxiety always has to peak and then go down again...etc...and those seemed helpful. But I felt like I didn't have the time and energy to practice some of the techniques enough.

 

[Economica]

Would a mod please change the title of this thread to "Economica's (and others') experiences with psychotherapy" and move it to the NT Personal Threads? Thanks in advance.

While I generally agree that people should normally give a therapist time and consideration, it is a problem if the therapist spends so much time pushing his own views that he doesn't bother to listen to you. He should be listening to what you are saying, even if he doesn't agree. There's lots of information to be gained about a person from listening to their viewpoints, to how they see their problems, even if you have different ideas. And particularly at this point, getting to know you and hear you is what he should be trying to do, and that should be a higher priority than trying to get you to accept his opinions.

Sorry it didn't work out, Eco. Glad you saw the incompatibility up front and didn't waste your time. I'm also surprised a psychoanalyst talked so much; isn't that something that gets in the way of what they're trying to accomplish? (I'm thinking he should spend much of the session just asking you leading questions and trying to get at your subconscious processes.)

^ That.

Jennifer, I too was surprised that he took the liberty to talk so much. I think maybe 1) he tries to make patients feel at ease by making it more conversational (but that was a waste of time for me since I had no problem whatsoever opening up) and 2) he is used to patients eating up his words (whereas I require more bang for my buck and would prefer for him to concentrate his energy on listening and processing and producing just a few relevant questions or observations per session).

If he lived in my city, I might give him a second chance, but for me to go there again (and to ask other people to come with me), he would have to be someone I had more faith in from the get-go.

By the way, in case anyone is interested, I think he is an ENFJ.

I will make an appointment with a local therapist soon and keep you all updated on how that goes!

 

[proximo]

Okay, well good luck with it, then.

I hope we're not going to be here again, four therapists later, though

 

[Economica]

I hope not either...

 

[Tiltyred]

Therapy has not worked out for me because
*I don't like taking an hour off from work and going to talk about stuff that gets me all worked up and then ding ding, the hour is over, and I have to act like nothing happened.
*One therapist hounded me, calling me up at work, when I occasionally had to cancel, not understanding that sometimes work stuff would come up and there was nothing I could do about it. I realized and accused him that it was because he missed me, and he admitted it. He got attached to me. That made me angry. The last thing I needed just then was another person making emotional demands.
*Someone else mentioned having to repeat yourself, the therapist very obviously not remembering the last conversation or last few conversations...I tried to solve this with another therapist by making a notebook with pictures of everyone I am close to or related to, like, a picture of my mom, and underneath it said "Mom," a picture of my boyfriend, and underneath it said Joe, Boyfriend. She still would ask me, "Now who is this you're talking about?" The last time she did it, I asked her if she would please review the notes I gave her. She said they were in another file. I said you keep one file on me on your lap and you have another file on me somewhere else? Where is it? Why do you keep two files? ... she didn't have another file. It didn't seem too much to ask for her to take 30 seconds and scan her notes before I came in. I prepared for her but I didn't feel she prepared for me.
*Bad meds management -- I brought in my prescription bottles so she could copy straight off the labels and there would be no confusion. She later prescribed other stuff on top of that. I was so spacey I couldn't remember anything 30 seconds after it was said to me. I complained to her and she said to stay with it. I was obedient for two more weeks, finally I stopped taking what she had prescribed. When I told her I'd discontinued taking that med, she lectured me that she was in charge of medicines and she was the one who should say when to stop and start, etc. But in that conversation it came out that she had not realized I was already taking a similar medication when I came to her. She said she didn't remember that because she didn't prescribe it (my primary care physician did). Again, she didn't look at my chart/file before she made the prescription.

Basically, it's too much work. Really all I wanted was someone I could speak to in complete confidence who would give me a little sympathy, and something to help me stay on an even keel while I got through the changes I had to go through.

This reminds me of the time my stepfather and I were walking on rocks out into the ocean, and the rocks felt a little slippery to me and I asked for his hand. He grabbed my whole wrist. I really just wanted my fingertips in his hand. Therapy seems like that to me. It's this big pain in the ass/rigamarole when all I need is virtually nothing.

But Economica, you said this guy, aside from being annoying and not moving along once you'd reflected that you were following, pointed out to you a symptom of your disease, do you realize? or has anyone else said? -- unrealistic goals/perfectionism, higher expectations of yourself than is reasonable -- that's a part of narcissism, isn't it?

ETA: Jesus, this is a long post, sorry.

 

[Seymour]

Therapy has not worked out for me because
*I don't like taking an hour off from work and going to talk about stuff that gets me all worked up and then ding ding, the hour is over, and I have to act like nothing happened.
*One therapist hounded me, calling me up at work, when I occasionally had to cancel, not understanding that sometimes work stuff would come up and there was nothing I could do about it. I realized and accused him that it was because he missed me, and he admitted it. He got attached to me. That made me angry. The last thing I needed just then was another person making emotional demands.
*Someone else mentioned having to repeat yourself, the therapist very obviously not remembering the last conversation or last few conversations...I tried to solve this with another therapist by making a notebook with pictures of everyone I am close to or related to, like, a picture of my mom, and underneath it said "Mom," a picture of my boyfriend, and underneath it said Joe, Boyfriend. She still would ask me, "Now who is this you're talking about?" The last time she did it, I asked her if she would please review the notes I gave her. She said they were in another file. I said you keep one file on me on your lap and you have another file on me somewhere else? Where is it? Why do you keep two files? ... she didn't have another file. It didn't seem too much to ask for her to take 30 seconds and scan her notes before I came in. I prepared for her but I didn't feel she prepared for me.
*Bad meds management -- I brought in my prescription bottles so she could copy straight off the labels and there would be no confusion. She later prescribed other stuff on top of that. I was so spacey I couldn't remember anything 30 seconds after it was said to me. I complained to her and she said to stay with it. I was obedient for two more weeks, finally I stopped taking what she had prescribed. When I told her I'd discontinued taking that med, she lectured me that she was in charge of medicines and she was the one who should say when to stop and start, etc. But in that conversation it came out that she had not realized I was already taking a similar medication when I came to her. She said she didn't remember that because she didn't prescribe it (my primary care physician did). Again, she didn't look at my chart/file before she made the prescription.

[...]

Wow, your therapist sounds terrible (no offense). First of all, a good therapist should leave enough time for you to collect yourself and pull yourself back together at a end of a session (especially if you are going back to work). Of course, it's not ALWAYS practical, but not leaving time should only happen rarely when you are in midst of a break-through and cutting things would be counter-productive. Your defenses exist for a reason, and having them in working order when you head out the door is good.

She also sounds really unprepared. Many therapists are perceivers (some are INFPs, in fact), but sounds like she wasn't even taking two minutes to look over her notes before each session. Having to remind your therapist about who someone is or a previous conversation doesn't seem unreasonable in itself, though. I'm sure they hear about lots of people third-hand, and really they are primarily concerned about what those people mean to you. Making a chart was actually a pretty clever way to deal with that issue... sorry it didn't work. She should definitely have been taking notes, especially when she saw that you were bothered by her not remembering.

When you were talking about being hounded for missing sessions, I was first taking it with a grain of salt. Often people miss sessions because the therapy is approaching some threatening material, so the therapist would be remiss not to follow up on that. While therapists are human, too, sounds like the hounding therapist has entirely lost objectivity.

And finally... not paying attention to what meds you are already on is horrible and could be life threatening. It's a problem in medicine in general, but sounds like she didn't even do a basic review before putting you on something new.

Anyway, I'm appalled and sorry to hear you've had such negative experiences. I've worked with a couple of therapists, and they were both significantly better than what you described.

 

[Economica]

But Economica, you said this guy, aside from being annoying and not moving along once you'd reflected that you were following, pointed out to you a symptom of your disease, do you realize? or has anyone else said? -- unrealistic goals/perfectionism, higher expectations of yourself than is reasonable -- that's a part of narcissism, isn't it?

For sure, narcissists project a Grandiose Self that is unreasonable, and I know I suffer a lot on account of being shamefully aware that my current work reality, respectable as it is, does not live up to my fantasies of achievement (see this blog post for elaboration). However, the motivation I was trying to convey to the therapist was more like:

Even though it is in my enlightened self-interest to treat my loved ones right (so I can enjoy healthy relationships with individuals who are my equals) and to act with integrity (so I can stand to look myself in the mirror), I find myself a slave to the pursuit of short-term ego gain from betraying love and integrity. Time and again I hurt others and disappoint myself. It is terrifying not to feel in control and frustrating not to understand why. I sometimes find myself wishing my repression were still fully functional that I might go back to denying the facts. What is the use of continuing to take this beating from reality? Will I ever come out on top? Who is John Galt?

(Err... Sorry, Ayn Rand's name has come up a lot lately. )

Then I gave some examples of situations where I had acted against what I knew to be my own long-term self-interest. And then the therapist insistently rationalized those examples. I won't recount the examples I gave him; you'll just have to take my word for it that he was justifying clearly destructive behavior. I got the impression that he was simply unable to entertain the notion that this polite, pleasant, self-aware young woman coming to him for help was a dangerous individual to get close to.

 

[Tiltyred]

Ah, now I get it. I hate it when they don't believe you.

 

[JAVO]

I don't see psychoanalytic approaches as very useful. If I were a psychiatrist or psychologist, I would want to approach nearly every problem by starting with brain function, and then working up to a more abstract level to include cognitive behavioral therapy. One big focus of CBT is to bring automatic, nonconscious thoughts into conscious awareness where they can be evaluated rationally before they affect us. This approach seemed to work well with my self-administered therapy anyway.

 

[Rebe]

I had a good experience but I am too proud to credit her with how much I have improved and changed mentally and emotionally. I am very analytical on my own and take great pride in figuring myself out and connecting dots and etc. She helped me by guiding me to explore the past and she gave strong opinions/judgment that helped. I had a very hard time admitting to the fact that my mother was emotionally abusive to me even though vaguely I knew that. So she said very clearly that my mother is jealous of the opportunities that I have now and etc and etc. But she didn't go overboard, she was my voice of reason and she helped me a lot. Okay, yes, she helped me a lot but a large part of therapy is also self-analysis and cooperation with your guider.

 

[Sinmara]

I went to see a therapist when I was 16.

It was absolutely horrible.

My parents sent me there because I was pushing back and they didn't like it. I was seeing a boy they didn't like. They rarely allowed me to see friends, never allowed company over, were not sympathetic to the problems I thought I had and told me to shut up and suck it up when I was depressed. So I started sneaking out at night to have some semblence of a social life and talked to anyone who would listen about my family situation, which was a huge no-no to them. Talking to others about family business was absolutely not allowed. Probably because they didn't want the social workers called.

They were using therapy as a sort of punishment to say there was something wrong with me.

My therapist was a moron.

My parents always insisted on family sessions. I was never alone with my therapist. My mother was always there. Even my sister was there sometimes. I was never free to talk, meaning that I could never tell my therapist what was actually going on in my house. The woman was too stupid to catch on to the power play that was going on. She always told me to feel free to say anything I wanted because we were in a safe space, but that was not a safe damn space. I still had to go home with those people and I was either yelled at or given the silent treatment for the things I told the therapist if they didn't like what I said. When I did get one whole session alone with the woman, her questions were very confrontational and accusatory, meaning she'd already bought into the skewed perspective of my parents, making her useless to me.

The therapist enrolled me into a teen therapy group she ran, and my mother always berated me before I got there and when I got out she would ask me things like "So, what horrible things have you told them about your mother this time?"

I couldn't even talk in the group. I felt too uncomfortable and self-conscious being emotionally open with a bunch of strangers.

They tried to put me on anti-depressants. I refused, saying that I didn't have a damn chemical imbalance, my family just sucked. Of course, I was belittled by my parents for being difficult and not doing what the therapist told me.

In retrospect, I should have asked the psychiatrist who would have prescribed the medication to be my therapist. She caught on to the way I clammed up with my mother in the room and asked her to leave so we could talk. But, I was 16 and didn't know I could do that.

Really, it was all treated more like an intervention than real therapy. It was a very them vs me attitude.

I know that real therapy in a real safe environment is a wonderful thing, but my experience was just traumatic.

 

[sofmarhof]

The one time I went to a therapist, I couldn't get past how obviously her training showed in the way she conducted a conversation. As in she had clearly been taught to talk in a very specific and unnatural way. Actually, my psych major sister, who has not even trained to be a therapist, has shown this tendency since she became a psych major. She's my best friend but I cannot go to her for advice.

 

[Mole]

Apparently rapport is necessary for successful therapy. So if rapport is not established by one therapist, it is sensible to try another.

 

[Cindy]

That sounds extremely familiar. I don't know what they hope to achieve with that kind of crap. I suppose it all sounds very PC and that they're afraid to be accused of railroading you or putting words into your mouth. Some of them don't want to be in a position where you can say they "made" you do or say things you didn't want to or feel ready for; I suspect that's what's behind that approach, a lot of the time.

I mean, it might work for someone who's in tune with their feelings and stuff like that, who can think in advance and plan things like that. But I can't see any T being able to do that very well at all - especially not early on in the treatment - and I can't imagine it suiting a P either.

A counsellor I know tells me that sometimes people pitch up, knowing they just need help, but their brain's a total mess and they don't have a clue where to start - that's why they came to her. She says it's her job, with people like that, to help them figure out what's eating them and why. It seems some therapists take it for granted that everyone knows what's bothering them for starters, and that they just want help with techniques of solving it.

Along similar lines my therapist used to ask me what I hoped to get out of therapy or why I was there. That used to piss me right off. What a massive waste of my time and money asking why I was there. If I've had 10 sessions and your asking why I've come to see you then that leaves me thinking we are obvioulsy not getting anywhere so yeah why am I here wasting my money with you? I've ended therapy over that question.

Now if they asked me what had bothered me in the last week or month that might have been helpful. They might actually be doing their job then ie getting the required info out of me instead leading me astray with a question I can't answer. It also pisses me off when they can't remember what we spoke about at the last session. Then they say to me your not talking enough. I'm an introvert. And I'm a T. I'm not going to change personalities to fit in with psychotherapy. They should know that. This is where they should say, do you prefer to communicate in writing? how would you feel about keeping a journal? Obviously thats not hard to work out since more than one person here has thought of that. OK.... breathing now. Just *laughs*.

Having vented I did have a really good therapist once. Although I eventually hit a brick wall due to, ugh , developing some feelings which then meant I withheld information. I should of just said how I felt but thats too hard.

Anyway he obviously read his notes. It was great to have someone to talk to who gave me what I paid for 'listening to me objectively and keeping my interests at heart'. He helped me understand myself better and I felt understood and not judged. He could of done some things better however I value what I've taken away from those sessions because they are valuable life skills and he sped up my progress. He actually managed to get me to ramble about some subconscious thoughts I wasn't aware I was having until they just slipped out which to me is proof he was good at his job. I miss having a person like that in my life. Took some bad therapists to find him though.