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Is logic limited?

Oaky

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Is human logic limited?
How about animal logic?
 

Athenian200

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Human logic is limited.

Animals don't use logic, they use instinct. And yes, their instincts are limited in applicability.
 

Oaky

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^ If this is true then can truth go beyond human logic?
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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Logic is the ultimate example of "what you get out of it depends on what you put into it."
 

Oaky

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^ Yea, I know, but is it limited?
 

Athenian200

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^ If this is true then can truth go beyond human logic?

Not only that, but true/false, and even the concept of things having a single place on a scale, may not even exist in the way we conceive of it. It may very well be that every possible reality and every possible course of events in all those realities, already exist and are all somehow intertwined yet separate.

In other words, it's possible that the nature of reality actually contradicts itself and is paradoxical, but that we can't understand the aspects of it that are like this well enough to manipulate them or interact with them because of the way our minds work.
 

Amargith

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Animal logic works just like ours, their capacity for it is just smaller (as far as we know). It goes back to learning principles.
 

Oaky

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^ I see... Interesting.
Not only that, but true/false, and even the concept of things having a single place on a scale, may not even exist in the way we conceive of it. It may very well be that every possible reality and every possible course of events in all those realities, already exist and are all somehow intertwined yet separate.

In other words, it's possible that the nature of reality actually contradicts itself and is paradoxical, but that we can't understand the aspects of it that are like this well enough to manipulate them or interact with them because of the way our minds work.
This is something I like. Therefore logic must be limited.
 

Athenian200

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Animal logic works just like ours, their capacity for it is just smaller (as far as we know). It goes back to learning principles.

No, no. Animals have EMOTIONS and INSTINCTS, and they feel pain, but they don't have LOGIC. Logic came when we evolved a neocortex. No animal besides an ape has even a simpler version of logic.
 

Amargith

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No, no. Animals have EMOTIONS and INSTINCTS, and they feel pain, but they don't have LOGIC. Logic came when we evolved a neocortex. No animal besides an ape has even a simpler version of logic.

Ok..either our definition of logic is different, or we disagree. What I mean is, an animal has the capacity to see that a+b=c. Aka, there's food on the table, getting the food is self-rewarding, but the owner is in the room which= punishment. So the animal waits till the owner is gone to get the food and thus having its cake(or meat) and eat it. It's called operant conditioning.

Other examples are for instance when researchers present the animal with a puzzle or riddle to get to a food reward they really like. They may not be as good at it as we are, but up to a certain level, they figure it out, and often they surprise us with their ingenuity.
 

Athenian200

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Ok..either our definition of logic is different, or we disagree. What I mean is, an animal has the capacity to see that a+b=c. Aka, there's food on the table, getting the food is self-rewarding, but the owner is in the room which= punishment. So the animal waits till the owner is gone to get the food and thus having its cake(or meat) and eat it. It's called operant conditioning.

Other examples are for instance when researchers present the animal with a puzzle or riddle to get to a food reward they really like. They may not be as good at it as we are, but up to a certain level, they figure it out, and often they surprise us with their ingenuity.

Oh! Well, you see, I'd call that figuring out how to do stuff. Not logic. Logic is more like this:

Socrates is a man.

All men are mortal.

Therefore, Socrates is mortal.
 

Kanamori

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I'd say it's the limiting factor. The rules of logic are pretty simple, not knowing that x is actually a y that looks like x is where things usually go wrong.
 

Oaky

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^ And so the rules are limited, yes?
 

Oaky

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^ Therefore I go back to the question I asked athenian. Can truth go beyond the rules of logic?
 

Oaky

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^ But I didn't ask that.
 

Athenian200

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Yes.

God.

Thats right I said it.

:rofl1:

Oh, you're a myth believer. How amusing!

Ahem. But yeah, nothing wrong with that. There's a lot of good stuff in Christianity. But I don't think God has any place in a discussion about knowledge. That's entirely based on faith, not knowledge.
 
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