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  1. #81
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krunchtime View Post
    Alright cool. Thanks for clarification.

    Because you define the function of logic as coming to the right conclusion. Hence, if you come to the wrong conclusion using logic, it indicates limitations in process of logical reasoning? Does it not indicate limitations in the human being (for using the inaccurate data/ definitions/ premise)?
    Supposing human logic is limited. We are using human logic to logically explain whether or not human logic is limited. You are logically explaining human logic to me in which I would agree or disagree to it because it of the human logic we think up of. And thus human logic brings people to conclusions that human logic is also unlimited. I think this is because that's as far as human logic can have the capacity to understand. Is logic limited to us only understanding what is logical to us? We can't really say because that is the capacity of our minds.

  2. #82
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Moved some off-topic derails to the Off-Topic thread.

    My bad.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Supposing human logic is limited. We are using human logic to logically explain whether or not human logic is limited. You are logically explaining human logic to me in which I would agree or disagree to it because it of the human logic we think up of. And thus human logic brings people to conclusions that human logic is also unlimited. I think this is because that's as far as human logic can have the capacity to understand. Is logic limited to us only understanding what is logical to us? We can't really say because that is the capacity of our minds.
    Sorry, I deleted my earlier reply because it didn't take into account your entire argument. I tried again, but still don't understand what you're talking about. Are you saying that our individual subjectivity prevents us from reaching an objective consensus on the limits or lack of thereof of logic?

  4. #84
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krunchtime View Post
    Sorry, I deleted my earlier reply because it didn't take into account your entire argument. I tried again, but still don't understand what you're talking about. Are you saying that our individual subjectivity prevents us from reaching an objective consensus on the limits or lack of thereof of logic?
    I'm saying that those who say logic is unlimited probably wouldn't know if it's limited or not because they would base it all on their own logic which could itself be limited.

  5. #85
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I might have made false assumption and got to wrong conlusion, but that doesent mean that i used false logic on this, but i might have, but what you say doesent prove that my logic was false.
    No.

    You're overlapping broken thinking with more broken thinking.

    The assumption remains wrong because your logic is wrong. There's not a sliver of your argument that is correct.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I think quantum mechanics proves that "logic" is a subjective term or at least something with subjective value. So does "Te vs Ti".


    We are always clouded by perception and and the different kinds of logic are a human construct.

  7. #87
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    We are always clouded by perception and and the different kinds of logic are a human construct.
    Wouldn't this mean that logic is limited?

  8. #88
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Wouldn't this mean that logic is limited?
    Well, we are not the same as a Homo Erectus. Evolution can take time.

    So depending on the time frame you are considering, yes logic is always limited. But in a context of constant evolution I'm not so sure.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    I'm saying that those who say logic is unlimited probably wouldn't know if it's limited or not because they would base it all on their own logic which could itself be limited.
    I see. So you are questioning my reasoning process. Fair enough, except it sounds like fallacy to me.

    1. User logic is limited
    2. User argument is based on logic
    3. Therefore, argument is limited

    Earlier you mentioned

    1. Human understanding is based on logic
    2. Human understanding is limited
    3. Therefore, logic is limited

    Earlier on, I was saying that if the reasoning process is faulty, it is indicative that the user is not proficient in it, but not necessarily that logical reasoning itself is faulty. But okay I'm no expert, just giving it shot which is hopefully, not wrong.

  10. #90
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krunchtime View Post
    I see. So you are questioning my reasoning process. Fair enough, except it sounds like fallacy to me.

    1. User logic is limited
    2. User argument is based on logic
    3. Therefore, argument is limited

    Earlier you mentioned

    1. Human understanding is based on logic
    2. Human understanding is limited
    3. Therefore, logic is limited

    Earlier on, I was saying that if the reasoning process is faulty, it is indicative that the user is not proficient in it, but not necessarily that logical reasoning itself is faulty. But okay, I'm no expert myself, just giving it a hopeful shot.
    Well I'm not really saying logic is faulty. I'm just saying it could have limits and so we only logically come to a conclusion within those limits. I'm guessing that it's a pretty strange concept to grasp. But anyways, it's interesting to talk about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Well, we are not the same as a Homo Erectus. Evolution can take time.

    So depending on the time frame you are considering, yes logic is always limited. But in a context of constant evolution I'm not so sure.
    I see. But you are looking towards the infinite future.

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