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  1. #111
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    See, it all depends on how you approach such matters. That's a prime example of how one can tell logic is a human construct.

    The imaginary numbers had to be invented due to a similar impossibility and illogicality (the root of a negative number). What I'm saying is, there isn't necessarily a "truth" here to be found, because it's we humans that define the boundaries of our own system.

    Imaginary numbers have no correlation with the real world unless we choose to make it so. The same happens with logic.
    And thus, we humans are imperfect creatures. Our logic has limits.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    That's not the right way to see it ('m on the phone) logic is a way to compute data not a category of information.
    Hah, I thought your post covered it pretty well, so I took it off to avoid getting into more argument. I definitely agree that we're using logic differently. I approach logic as a construct, an underlying principle. That's why I couldn't understand why there is an upper limit imposed on logic. But if you consider the logic as a process, a means to an end, there can be limits to its applicability and/or effectiveness.

  3. #113
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    And thus, we humans are imperfect creatures. Our logic has limits.
    No, because we constantly come up with new "imaginary numbers" therefore "solving" previous "problems".

    We are imperfect, but we are constantly perfecting ourselves.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    And thus, we humans are imperfect creatures. Our logic has limits.
    I don't know whether I should be saying this, but I think it might, might be more accurate to call it logical solutions, instead of logic.

  5. #115
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    No, because we constantly come up with new "imaginary numbers" therefore "solving" previous "problems".

    We are imperfect, but we are constantly perfecting ourselves.
    Yea but it currently has limits hmm? Anyways, I feel like I'm talking to the homeless guy in your avatar and it's just weird that he talk about all these theories.

  6. #116
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    And thus, we humans are imperfect creatures. Our logic has limits.
    our logic has limits at T(now) yes, but logic is a process(exists in Space ANd Time), and a self improving one at that, so with access to infinite ressources (like the sub planck scale computation and data storage i mentioned earlier) imperfect human logic could have the potential to reach a superlative state.

    So one could argue that for example some subplanck data computation / data storage and retrieval unit working within a human brain (or outside, as it's just a matter of degree/rates of communication in the end, and that in and out are just perpectives)
    k where was I, yeah so imagine that this 'infinite logical circuit' could be accessed by the human mind, would you say that this mind wasn't human anymore? I don't think that's true(or rather relevant), its just a matter of categorisation, a matter of perspectives.
    When caesar lived, his now was 'now', to us 'now' is year 2009 of this era, as the ancients used to say you can never step into the same river twice (or was it cross) and object/ego constancy/permanence is just an illusion brought by the continuity of memory.

    So basically, as far as future beings are related to the 2009 humans by a continuity of memory/history, they will be human, therefore imperfect human logic is not an absolute state but one state of a dynamic function at T(x)
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #117
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krunchtime View Post
    I don't know whether I should be saying this, but I think it might, might be more accurate to call it logical solutions, instead of logic.
    Feel free to say what you wish. Tis just a discussion.

  8. #118
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    our logic has limits yes, but logic is a process, and a self improving one at that, so with access to infinite ressources (like the sub planck scale computation and data storage i mentioned earlier) imperfect human logic could have the potential to reach a superlative state.

    So one could argue that for example some subplanck data computation / data storage and retrieval unit working within a human brain (or outside, as it's just a matter of degree/rates of communication in the end, and that in and out are just perpectives)
    k where was I, yeah so imagine that this 'infinite logical circuit' could be accessed by the human mind, would you say that this mind weren't human anymore? I don't think that's true(or rather relevant), its just a matter of categorisation, a matter of perspectives.
    When caesar lived, his now was 'now', to us 'now' is year 2009 of this era, as the ancients used to say you can never step into the same river twice (or was it cross) and object/ego constancy/permanence is just an illusion brought by the continuity of memory.
    Yes, yes I haven't disagreed with that. I'm just looking where we currently are. And we have no idea about our future. We can only assume that the humans in the future would have expanded the logic we currently have now.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Yea but it currently has limits hmm? Anyways, I feel like I'm talking to the homeless guy in your avatar and it's just weird that he talk about all these theories.
    LOL And I feel like I'm talking to L! really

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Feel free to say what you wish. Tis just a discussion.
    Great. People who don't get testy are cool

  10. #120
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Yea but it currently has limits hmm? Anyways, I feel like I'm talking to the homeless guy in your avatar and it's just weird that he talk about all these theories.
    Yes current logic has limits. If that's the question then the answer is clear imo.

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