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  1. #101
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Illogical =/= emotional. Is an electrons trajectory illogical? Is psychology not the logical study of emotions?

    And no, logic is not illogical. Logic is a tool, a system. "Action" based on logic is something only a human, or a human constructed program can do.
    It is logical that someone does an emotional action but the action itself maybe illogical due to emotions. Therefore something logical can lead to something illogical.
    I am angry. I will throw my chair out the window because I am angry.
    It can be logical that I became angry. However throwing the chair out the window is an illogical action due to being angry because later I will realise it was illogical and I shouldn't have done it.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    It is logical that someone does an emotional action but the action itself maybe illogical due to emotions. Therefore something logical can lead to something illogical.
    I am angry. I will throw my chair out the window because I am angry.
    It can be logical that I became angry. However throwing the chair out the window is an illogical action due to being angry because later I will realise it was illogical and I shouldn't have done it.
    That's exactly the issue here. Throwing a chair out the window is not an illogical action.


    What makes an action illogical?

  3. #103
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    That's exactly the issue here. Throwing a chair out the window is not an illogical action.


    What makes an action illogical?
    If it does not follow the rules of logic.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    If it does not follow the rules of logic.
    How does throwing a chair out the window when I'm angry not follow the rules of logic?


    What do the rules of logic ever say about human behavior, goals, wants or needs?

  5. #105
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    It seems like we have a categorisation issue again,
    One group uses logic as in the concept of logic and another as 'the actual processes'.

    From a process oriented standpoint logic is a tool, a way to intermingle data and come up with new data. Now for accuracy's sake logic uses objects as they are easier to define than gestalts such as emotional states and so on.

    But in my opinion, if we don't start arguing about bookish definition but focus on the process itself, with enough accuracy emotions and anything at all can be analysed logically, it's just that the level of reliability of "hard-objects" is way higher in a computation process aiming at the obtention of a result(s) that is(are) useable and quantifiable and more importantly that can be reproduced.

    SO to conclude the distinction people make between particle-like facts and geshtalt/wave like emotions (uncertain/unquantifiable) is mostly historical and related to our capacity to extract accurate/reliable information from different 'mediums'. For the process of logic to work the 'category' of information is irrelevant as logic only 'cares' about accuracy/stability/quantifiability.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  6. #106
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krunchtime View Post
    Um, Anger is an irrational emotion. But throwing the chair can be a logical expression of that anger. If you think that it is logical for someone to perform an emotional action, it follows that the action is logical. At least, that's the way I read it.
    That's not the right way to see it ('m on the phone) logic is a way to compute data not a category of information.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #107
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    How does throwing a chair out the window when I'm angry not follow the rules of logic?


    What do the rules of logic ever say about human behavior, goals, wants or needs?
    I understand what you mean. Forget what I said. My example was silly.
    Here's something:
    1+1=3 <--- logical?

  8. #108
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    I understand what you mean. Forget what I said. My example was silly.
    Here's something:
    1+1=3 <--- logical?
    No. The principles of mathematics clearly state otherwise.

  9. #109
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    No. The principles of mathematics clearly state otherwise.
    Here is something that's not known because of the limits to our logic.
    0/0
    0 or 1?
    or
    1/0

  10. #110
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Here is something that's not known because of the limits to our logic.
    0/0
    0 or 1?
    or
    1/0
    See, it all depends on how you approach such matters. That's a prime example of how one can tell logic is a human construct.

    The imaginary numbers had to be invented due to a similar impossibility and illogicality (the root of a negative number). What I'm saying is, there isn't necessarily a "truth" here to be found, because it's we humans that define the boundaries of our own system.

    Imaginary numbers have no correlation with the real world unless we choose to make it so. The same happens with logic.

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