• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

MBTI <> Enneagram

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
Okay htb I've drawn a blank. Have a look for yourself and see what you think.
link
 

"?"

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
1,167
MBTI Type
TiSe
I do realise that they are two separate systems but they are still both centred on the person who's answering the questions and that's where the two systems interact. What I cannot figure is how the two systems interact in a more conceptual and theoretical way.
I think you are right that both systems can have an influence on taking a test for the other, but that is the user’s unwillingness to be honest and introspective. One is cognitive based (MBTI) and the other emotional based (Enneagram). Fives and Nines are different and many male Nines mistype as Fives because
Part of the problem stems from the fact that individuals of both types can be highly intelligent, although as a group Fives are probably the most intelligent of the nine personality types. (When Nines are highly intelligent, they can be as brilliant as Fives, although their intellectual prowess is compartmentalized. They are brilliant at work but unfocused and inattentive everywhere else, whereas Fives are focused and attentive everywhere all the time.) Although intelligence can be manifested in different ways, being intelligent does not make Nines intellectuals, just as thinking does not make them thinkers. As we have seen, the pattern as a whole (and the motivations) must be taken into consideration, not one or two traits in isolation. Since all the types think in one way or another, thinking alone, with no further distinction, is not a sufficient basis for a personality diagnosis.

The fundamental difference between the thinking of Nines and that of Fives is that Nines are impressionistic, involved with generalities, imaginative ruminations, and fanciful situations. Nines typically do not concern themselves with details, nor are they usually good at following up once they have acted. By contrast, the thinking of Fives is highly focused, penetrating, and almost microscopic in the narrowness of its frame of reference. Fives love details, losing themselves in research, scholarship, and complex intellectual pursuits. They think in depth, concentrating so much that they block out other perceptions (eventually to their detriment). By contrast, even brilliant Nines tend to have problems concentrating; they also tend to lose interest quickly and to allow their attention to drift off when they become bored or anxious.

Nines tend to spin grand, sweeping, idealistic solutions to problems, while Fives tend to speculate on problems, then on the problems that their problems have raised, then on those problems, ad infinitum. Nines may be gifted storytellers, able to communicate simply and effectively to others, even to children. Fives usually communicate to only a few or keep their ideas entirely to themselves. (Moreover, their ideas may be so complicated that they are difficult to communicate to all but other specialists.) Nines usually do not consider the consequences of their actions; Fives are extremely interested in predicting the consequences of every action. Nines idealize the world and create imaginary worlds in which good always triumphs over evil; Fives analyze the real world and create horrifying scenarios in which evil usually triumphs over good or exists in tension with it. Nines simplify; Fives complexify. Nines look to the past; Fives to the future. Nines are fantasists; Fives are theorists. Nines are disengaged; Fives are detached. Nines are utopians; Fives are nihilists. Nines are optimists; Fives are pessimists. Nines are open; Fives are resistant. Nines are non-threatening and nonjudgmental; Fives are defensive and contentious. Nines are at peace; Fives are in tension. Nines end in dissociation; Fives in paranoia.

Comparisons and contrasts such as these could be multiplied almost indefinitely because, while these two types are such opposites, they are also paradoxically similar. What they have in common is the tendency to ask "What if?" questions. The difference is in their response: Nines tend to ruminate on their fantasies, while Fives attempt to see if their ideas could come true. The Nine's ideas usually involve a single insight that, while true enough, is often impractical and goes nowhere. For instance, a Nine may think that the way to world peace is "for everyone to love one another." While this is doubtlessly true, the problem not addressed is how to get everyone to love one another. A Five wondering about the same problem would write a treatise on world peace after doing exhaustive historical research, eventually erecting a grand theory of peace. (The Five's ideas may also come to nothing, but at least they are pursued, and practical results may eventually come of them.) To give another example, a Nine might wonder what it is like to fly and make up a story about it. A Five might wonder how to fly and invent an airplane or do research on birds or design a rocket.

In short, Nines have an active fantasy life and think that they have deep thoughts. Sometimes they do, of course, although the thinking of intelligent, well-educated Nines tends to be in the direction of simplifying reality and cutting through abstruse thickets to get at the kernel of truth beneath. Nines tend to see things the way they want them to be; they reinterpret reality to make it more comforting and less threatening, simpler and less daunting. By contrast, the thinking of Fives is complex. By attempting to arrive at a grand unifying theory that encompasses and explains everything, average Fives end up involved in increasing complications and abstractions. Their thought is focused on specifics, often highly technical and concerned with foresight and the consequences of acting one way rather than another. But at an extreme, Fives risk seeing reality not as it is but as a projection of their preoccupations and fears. They distort their perceptions of reality so that reality seems more negative and threatening than it actually is.

Nines feel at ease in the world, and their style of thinking reflects their unconscious desire to merge with the world. Fives are afraid of being overwhelmed by the world, and their intellectual efforts are an unconscious defense against the world, an attempt to master it intellectually. There is a world of difference between these two types since they see the world so differently. Compare Charles Darwin (a Five) and Walt Disney (a Nine), Albert Einstein (a Five) and Jim Henson (a Nine) to understand the similarities and differences between these two types more clearly.
Also there are triads in the enneagram, dividing the types by anger or rage (8,9,1) shame (2,3,4) and by anxiety (5,6,7). The emotions of those types for 5 and 9 are:
In the Instinctive triad Nines deny their anger and instinctual energies as if to say, "What anger? I am not a person who gets angry." Nines are the type most out of touch with their anger and instinctual energies, often feeling threatened by them. Of course, Nines get angry like everyone else, but try to stay out of their darker feelings by focusing on idealizations of their relationships and their world.

In the Thinking Triad, Fives have anxiety about the outer world and about their capacity to cope with it. Thus, they cope with their fear by withdrawing from the world. Fives become secretive, isolated loners who use their minds to penetrate into the nature of the world. Fives hope that eventually, as they understand reality on their own terms, they will be able to rejoin the world and participate in it, but they never feel they know enough to participate with total confidence. Instead, they involve themselves with increasingly complex inner worlds.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
?,
I'm so not a classical 9.

Btw, was that description written by a 5 or something? Reading it the underlying current seems to be that 9s are kinda hippyish and 5s are brilliant but haunted people. I know they are probably extremes for illustrative purposes but it really doesn't read too well for a 9.
 

htb

New member
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
1,505
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Hmmm I think you're a negative feedback person.
I prefer constructive criticism, though you may have exclusively meant something pertaining to the Enneagram.

Nah I think it's more likely that the problem with some of the "INTP"s is that they're 5s who think that means they're INTPs when actually they aren't.
Good. I was hoping my initial conclusion wasn't wrong for that reason. Tee-hee!

Have a look for yourself and see what you think.
I dress accordingly; I am known, in a position wielding authority over municipal rules and regulations, to be as systematically insistent as efficient, acting according to clear interpretations whenever possible, "Mister Rules" being one nickname overheard.

Descriptions of the Enneagram One differ from source to source, of course, but they fit me well enough. And, perhaps still locatable on INTPCentral, I tested as a Four during a time of acute stress.
 

CzeCze

RETIRED
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
8,975
MBTI Type
GONE
...Also there are triads in the enneagram, dividing the types by anger or rage (8,9,1) shame (2,3,4) and by anxiety (5,6,7). The emotions of those types for 5 and 9 are:

So my life is fueled by shame and anxiety?

:thinking:

Yep, that about sums it up.
 

substitute

New member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
MBTI Type
ENTP
Also there are triads in the enneagram, dividing the types by anger or rage (8,9,1) shame (2,3,4) and by anxiety (5,6,7). The emotions of those types for 5 and 9 are:

In which case I'm still a 5w8 or 8w5!! :doh:
 

alcea rosea

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
3,658
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Enneagram & MBTI

I still continue to search for my Enneagram type and that made me wonder what Enneagram & MBTI type combinations there are in MBTIc.

So, the questions are:

What are your Enneagram & MBTI types?
How does the combination fit to the MBTI & Enneagram correlations presented in Type Correlations.
(Thanks for the link Magic Poriferan!)
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
well, most of them are rather spot on with me! ESTP- 7w8 sx who scored highest as Adventurous type! :D
 

Maverick

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
880
MBTI Type
ENTJ
It's a system that is interesting to promote thought about people's motivations instead of just personality traits. However, the type descriptions are vague and can vary greatly between authors. Another problem is that motivations are not directly observable and their identification is somewhat of an art, which makes the Enneagram an essentially unfalsifiable theory.

I relate less and less to the Enneagram and do not identify myself with any particular type anymore.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Well, I'm a 1/2, and an INTP. I'm Intimate(sexual) and Asocial.

That description hits the bullseye. That's exactly what I am.
Now, it's a little strange, because you can see that such a combination is not common. I do not think it is a sign of any flaw, however, because I have a very easy time putting my types together, and because they are so accurate.

I don't know about your situation. You know at this point what are typical types for an ENFP. If you're still stumped, then you might consider that you're in the same position as me. Some kind of freak of type.
(and you are so welcome!)
 
Last edited:

alcea rosea

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
3,658
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Well, I'm a 1/2, and an INTP. I'm Intimate(sexual) and Asocial.

I don't about your situation. You know at this point what are typical types for an ENFP. If you're still stumped, then you might consider that you're in the same position as me. Some kind of freak of type.
(and you are so welcome!)

I have read a lot of material of Enneagram and come to conclusion that I'm as much 9 as I am 7. Isn't that a weird combination? :wacko:
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
I'm a sx 7w8. The description is spot on.
 

Splittet

Wannabe genius
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
632
MBTI Type
INTJ
I am not an expert at Enneagram, but I identify most with the five type. Not sure about the wings, but maybe I pick 6 over 4.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I have read a lot of material of Enneagram and come to conclusion that I'm as much 9 as I am 7. Isn't that a weird combination? :wacko:

Ehhh... It's not super weird. There are a lot of similarities between a Seven and a Nine. Seven/One, Eight/Two, Nine/Three, those would be really weird things to tie on.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Magic and I have been 'round the maypole with my odd scores. I test equally strongly between 2 and 7. *shrugs* Both fit me somewhat if you mash them together.

I suspect the 2 is the most correct, but it doesn't grant for my force of nature at all. I also suspect several other things have skewed my results: being raised with an ENFP twin has influenced me greatly; having to take action when my parents would not, even when I was an adolescent; physical abuse; emphasis on T.

EDIT: I see that according to some versions an ENFJ can be a two and a seven. Hmm.
 

Ezra

Luctor et emergo
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
534
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
The only type I have typed as that has remotely contradicted the 8 is the ISTJ, and I think that this is probably a test flaw as opposed to my being an ISTJ.

Alcearos, what Enneagram types are you considering at the moment? I'll help you decide on it if you want.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I still continue to search for my Enneagram type and that made me wonder what Enneagram & MBTI type combinations there are in MBTIc.

So, the questions are:

What are your Enneagram & MBTI types?
How does the combination fit to the MBTI & Enneagram correlations presented in Type Correlations.
(Thanks for the link Magic Poriferan!)

I'm not sure there is a direct correlation... but I'm an INFJ/4w5, and that doesn't seem too uncommon.

It seems like I'm always looking for meaning, like many 4's. There are two differences, though. One is that I delve deeply into ideas looking for it rather than just being able to be faithful in things that occur to me. And instead of being able to find meaning in extreme pain, I can experience it to a certain extent and find meaning in it, but when it gets to be too much... it's like something "snaps" and all of a sudden I can't feel much of anything. It's like I don't feel anything until my stress gets back down to a reasonable level. I would want to say it was scary, but I can only say that it seems that way in retrospect. The closest analogy I can think of to describe the feeling when this happens is a computer. It's like the odd feeling of working in older versions of Windows, and then all of a sudden having the computer run out of memory/resources (or having a driver conflict/application error) and throw you back to the command prompt. The way this feels is like trying to do everything on the command prompt until you can isolate and fix what was wrong, and get back into Windows. But thankfully, this has only happened a couple times in my life so far (I mean the feeling I described in analogy, because I've had Windows do this to me many times.)

Also, I don't seem to seek pain to the same extent, or have quite as much ability to deal with it. I'm good at dealing with people when they need me, but I can only seem do it for about two-three hours before having to withdraw or become stressed, while a lot of other Fours seem to have an emotional strength that runs deeper. It's like the 5 wing saps a good deal of the natural energy of my 4.

I think it fits well with my MBTI type, because of this:

Ni Fe Ti

Fe is surrounded by functions that don't exactly promote it's agenda, so it's the main source of passion/emotion in my personality, and between external stresses and resisting (occasionally very strong) internal dissent to stay uninvolved/disengaged from things, it can be tapped out quickly if I'm not careful.
 

sassafrassquatch

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
961
MBTI sounds like it describes the nuts and bolts of my mind but it doesn't describe how I express myself at all. The Six description is far more accurate for me than any MBTI type.
 

alcea rosea

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
3,658
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Alcearos, what Enneagram types are you considering at the moment? I'll help you decide on it if you want.

I'm considering 7 and 9. 50% goes 7 and 50% goes to 9 when considering the descriptions, wings, triads, directions etc. So I cannot decide. I'm either 7w8 or 9w8. I'm definitely not 8.

Funny thing is that I identified my husband ISTP as 8. How common is that?

I found this site comparing MBTI and Enneagram.
 

redacted

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,223
And instead of being able to find meaning in extreme pain, I can experience it to a certain extent and find meaning in it, but when it gets to be too much... it's like something "snaps" and all of a sudden I can't feel much of anything. It's like I don't feel anything until my stress gets back down to a reasonable level.

that sounds much more 1ish. or possibly 5ish.

enneagram type 4 strikes me as a strong focus on Fi. i can't think of a 4 i've ever met that wasn't IxFP (or ENFP in one case).

4s emotions seem very internalized, based on personal values, etc. as opposed to a focus on the intricacies of social structure that Fe would provide.
 
Top