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  1. #41
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I don't understand wings. I've said before how I always test as strong in both 5 and 8, sometimes more one, sometimes more the other. I read the descriptions in great detail and still it seems I'm half 5, half 8. I wouldn't say I was all one or the other. But yet you can't have a 5w8 or 8w5, apparently?!

    There's too much of five that isn't me, for me to say it's my type. But there's too much that is for me to say it isn't. There's too much of 8 that is me to dismiss it; too much that isn't to embrace it. None of the other types seem at all accurate for me.

    Why can't I be 5w8??
    Same here! I dead-split as a 2 and a 7 consistently. Both are me, but not enough me standing alone. 2 seems more like a "grounded" type (ISFJ, for instance) and 7 seems to be more intuitive and dramatic like me, but too flighty on it's own. ARG!

    That's it. I'm a 2w7 and that settles it! *stamps foot indignantly*
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  2. #42
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    If we throw out the conventional wing system, then I should actually be a 1/5.
    Two has typically scored in third place.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  3. #43
    Senior Member pocket lint's Avatar
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    My enneagram results are consistently equal amounts of 9 and 7, with 5 as the next highest. This page helped me better understand why it was so hard for me to pin down my MBTI type.

    Enneagram Type --> Associated MBTI Types --> Associated Preferences & Temperaments

    9-Mediator --> ISFP, INFP --> I,F,P,SP
    7-Enthusiast --> ESTP, ENTP, ENFP, ESFP --> E, N, P
    5-Thinker --> INTP, INTJ, ISTP, ISTJ --> I,N,T,NT

  4. #44
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    Default Books

    IMO, What's My Type and Discover Your Soul Potential , by Hurley and Dobson (changed his name to Donson for the last one), are the best Enneagram books because they have clear solutions for improving yourself. Using the motivations behind each type number, they address how you can improve yourself, using the process of transformation. Oh, and they never say transformation is easy.

    One of the chapters talks about the Illusionary System each type uses. I am a Type 9: The Preservationist, and I will list a brief summary of my illusionary system (quoted from What is My Type):
    • The deception Preservationists are caught in is personal irresponsibility, which lives under the guise of contentment, an attitude fueled by their prime addiction of sloth.
    • To mask their deception and keep it from being disclosed, Preservationists fabricate a pseudo-deception, distress.
    • If Preservationist could own the inner strength that would allow them to deal directly with life, they would develop diligence, the antidote for their deception.
    • Instead, Preservationists avoid distress by developing the pseudo-antidote of resignation.
    • The illusion of reality in which Preservationists live, then, is preserving peace at any price.
    • Undergirding all these illusions is an unspoken personal statement of self-justification, "I preserve my satisfaction." Thus they also reveal their orientation toward the past, which they preserve with great fondness, sentimentality and denial.


    I prefer the Enneagram over MBTI because of this kind of description, which fits me quite accurately, because it presents a way to improve myself. MBTI says "Here is your type," and seems to imply that I am stuck with it. At least I haven't read anything which purports to provide a way for me to improve myself using MBTI.

  5. #45
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    Default But Wait, There's More!

    According to Hurley and Donson, there are three Centers of Intelligence, Doing, Thinking, and Feeling. They have a good summary, (make sure you scroll all the way down the page, past the seminar pricing), here. In their books, they describe these centers in more detail and these descriptions can really help you pinpoint your enneagram type. These centers are more nuanced, so they help add clarity to your behavior, which assists in confirming your type. Another breakdown of the types by intelligence center is here.

    With regard to wings, Hurley and Donson say that wings refer to the types on the edges of each intelligence center. The wing types are 8 and 1, 2 and 4, 5 and 7. The intelligence center closest to the preferred center is your secondary or support center. Example: A Type 5 is in the Thinking Center along with the Type 6 and Type 7. Type 6 is in the same center, so the 5 support center is the Feeling Center, which contains the Type 4, Type 3, and Type 2. Confused? Good.

    The preferred center for the Type 5 is the Thinking Center, with the Feeling Center supporting the Thinking Center. The Doing Center is repressed and is used about 5% of the time. So for the Type 5, becoming more balanced means using the Doing Center more.

  6. #46
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zybd03 View Post

    The preferred center for the Type 5 is the Thinking Center, with the Feeling Center supporting the Thinking Center. The Doing Center is repressed and is used about 5% of the time. So for the Type 5, becoming more balanced means using the Doing Center more.
    So is the doing centre a native 8 trait? Cos it could be because I do friggin use it all the time, as well as the thinking one, that's why I'm half 5 and half 8. Or does it mean I'm an incredibly healthy 5? Cos I tell ya, I don't feel that healthy at the moment!!

    I actually feel more like I've got thinking and doing in equal lead roles, with the feeling centre pretty low down, if anywhere. The doing has never been repressed with me, but feeling always has.

    So, I'm still 5w8!! Or would that be 8w5?? lol
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  7. #47
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Same here! I dead-split as a 2 and a 7 consistently. Both are me, but not enough me standing alone. 2 seems more like a "grounded" type (ISFJ, for instance) and 7 seems to be more intuitive and dramatic like me, but too flighty on it's own. ARG!

    That's it. I'm a 2w7 and that settles it! *stamps foot indignantly*
    Wow, I'm more curious now to see what you are like in IRL.

    I get '7' consistently and agree it's very ENFP/ESFP.

    But I think a lot of a y'know, fun and young people, get that. Hahaah. For me, it just doesn't resonate and I don't want to build a personality type around it. I consider 7 more reflective of (my) lifestyle or age. Though if you are a true 7 then I bet you are lots of fun. For me though, I disregard it now when it comes up and look at other scores instead.

    What do you think of 2?? What do you interpret as being a 2 and does that correlate with your MBTI type?

    I ask because I now score more as 2 or 4 (both with a 3 wing) and still yes, a 7. Honestly, the descriptions of 2 and 4 initially really turned me off, partly because Ennegram focuses on the negatives and vices it seems to me. And whoever is writing the descriptions on line seem to really bash 2's and make 2's out to be needy manipulative martyrs -- like a mean busybody great aunt. WTF. I'd rather be a 4 'The Artist' if anything, because honestly, making a career jump into an artistic field, I welcome any reassurance I can get.
    Hahaha..but seriously yes.

    And some Ennegram types supposedly score inaccurately as other types -- some 4's type as 7's and so on.

    Magic P, are there any keen insights into this you care to share with us?

  8. #48
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    As a One with Two, I really am Jesus!

    The Enneagram and the MBTI are partly separate. They are like a few colors off by a slight spectral shift. Some aspects of the MBTI and Enneagram results blatantly connect, where as others are more loose. This why we have the type correlation breakdowns like we do.

    I haven't attempted with any specifics. I have simply applied both types to myself in entirety. Anything that both types have, I must have a lot.
    Anything that neither type has, I must not have at all.
    Anything that is opposite between the two types, is either moderate or wishy-washy for me. I just keep it simple like that.

    The problem is that the difference are not so conveniently explained.
    The Enneagram is less technical and more about motive, but it's not 100%. Perhaps not even 75%. Then you have an odd number versus an even one...

    Now, the instinctual variant is a simple add-on test that really is completely about what motivates you. It was designed to be used in conjunction with the Enneagram, but I find it works fine with the MBTI as well.
    What happens if you cut out the bit's that are duplicated in both systems and then had a look? Would not the enneagram become a tack on for the MBTI and help to round out some of those gaping holes in the type descriptions? I mean the MBTI is good but because it's all preference based and makes only off handed gestures to those preferences you get odd gaps in people's behaviour. I don't think it'd be possibly to close it entirely but I'd think that were a person to state their MBTI type, their enneagram and whether they are positive or negative feedback (possibly a full FIRO-B...not sure) then I reckon you'd be able to have a fair stab at describing their behaviour a lot closer than you can with any one system.

    Professionals use more than one system because no one system is good enough or encompassing enough. So why can't two or more systems be blended in theory? They are in reality so it should work at the other end too shirley?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    So is the doing centre a native 8 trait? Cos it could be because I do friggin use it all the time, as well as the thinking one, that's why I'm half 5 and half 8. Or does it mean I'm an incredibly healthy 5? Cos I tell ya, I don't feel that healthy at the moment!!

    I actually feel more like I've got thinking and doing in equal lead roles, with the feeling centre pretty low down, if anywhere. The doing has never been repressed with me, but feeling always has.

    So, I'm still 5w8!! Or would that be 8w5?? lol
    You would be using Thinking as the preferred center with Doing as the secondary center. To balance yourself out, you need to work on the Feeling Center which is your repressed center.

    Did you follow the links to Hurley's website? I think those would add some clarity.

  10. #50
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    What do you think of 2?? What do you interpret as being a 2 and does that correlate with your MBTI type?
    Well, I tend to be interested in Twos. They are very comforting types, you know? Typically, ENFJs and ESFJs are associated with type Two.
    ENFP, ESFP, and ISFJ are other frequenters.
    As you can see, excluding the ISFJ, they are all Extraverted Feelers.
    None of them are Thinkers.


    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I ask because I now score more as 2 or 4 (both with a 3 wing) and still yes, a 7. Honestly, the descriptions of 2 and 4 initially really turned me off, partly because Ennegram focuses on the negatives and vices it seems to me. And whoever is writing the descriptions on line seem to really bash 2's and make 2's out to be needy manipulative martyrs -- like a mean busybody great aunt. WTF. I'd rather be a 4 'The Artist' if anything, because honestly, making a career jump into an artistic field, I welcome any reassurance I can get.
    Hahaha..but seriously yes.
    Not really. The pages bash the types pretty equally.
    I noticed that people always think their own type gets bashed the most.


    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Magic P, are there any keen insights into this you care to share with us?
    I'm not sure what. It sounds like you've already read a lot.
    But of course, there's always Enneagram Institute: Enneagram Testing & Training and www.9types.com.
    You could also take a look at this: Enn9styls1.html
    And as I have posted before, this place poses many ideas about correlation.
    Type Correlations





    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    What happens if you cut out the bit's that are duplicated in both systems and then had a look? Would not the enneagram become a tack on for the MBTI and help to round out some of those gaping holes in the type descriptions? I mean the MBTI is good but because it's all preference based and makes only off handed gestures to those preferences you get odd gaps in people's behaviour. I don't think it'd be possibly to close it entirely but I'd think that were a person to state their MBTI type, their enneagram and whether they are positive or negative feedback (possibly a full FIRO-B...not sure) then I reckon you'd be able to have a fair stab at describing their behaviour a lot closer than you can with any one system.

    Professionals use more than one system because no one system is good enough or encompassing enough. So why can't two or more systems be blended in theory? They are in reality so it should work at the other end too shirley?
    Well, I'm not dismissing the idea of mixing the two. I'm just saying that I don't think the process of overlaying them is necessarily very complex.
    This is also, once again, why I like the instinctual variants.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

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