User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 27

  1. #11
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That's exactly how I feel. Like I have no power. I mean, the only people in the world I can rely on at all are my parents and myself. Everyone else regards me as a stranger and an outsider, and I don't know how to break from that without an existing friend who's already "inside" the system to introduce me to people. Obviously I need a job, but it doesn't seem clear how one is supposed to get into a job without either knowing people or having experience, and I have neither advantage. The icing on that cake is that everything in the world I can think of to do that would improve this situation depends on money, and I have no income, very limited funds. It's hard not to feel powerless in such a situation.
    Quit fearing failure. You will have to fail multiple times before you succeed. That's called life. Keep making multiple stabs at it until something works.

    Actually, it's neither. I see becoming independent as a necessity. I don't feel any pride regarding it because I believe it's something I should have already done.
    Don't worry about what should be, and simply concern yourself with what is.

    I do feel a sense of frustration with the process, though. I fear that I'm expected to have already gone through it, and that it will be a lot harder to for people to understand me going through it at 21 than it would have been at a younger age. And also, I'm not even aware of what the process is, other than simply getting a job, holding it down for a while, and then finding a way to get a place and take care of bills. And to be honest, the job and transportation part seems the most difficult, especially since I'm not interested in driving and wouldn't be able to afford a car anyway.
    You're still a kid at 21; don't worry about thinking you're too old to find yourself. Everyone does it at different times. What seems like an objective standard is actually an accumulation of multiple subjective standards, so concern yourself not with it.

    Do you know what the process is? You alluded to it in the last sentence. The process is dealing with the bullshit that you have to, without making excuses for what you want to do. If you aren't interested in driving, but you have to drive in order to attain your goals, guess what - you better just hold your nose and learn how to get behind the wheel. Prioritize. Keep your eye on the bigger picture.

    Both. Independence was honestly discouraged and seen as undeserved. They essentially felt, and still feel, that I have no right to act independently in any capacity whatsoever until I've proven that I can hold down a job and pay bills. There's no support when I go that route, there never HAS been.
    Fuck what they think. Honestly. Don't give two shits about that opinion if it's going to hold you back from your goals. You're going to have to deal with haters your entire life - the trick is to either ignore them or use them as motivation.

    I think I learned to kill that instinct during those nights at my father's house when I just wanted to run away from a situation I felt trapped in. I'd just rationalize, "Why bother? You'd be found by the police, and they'd just make you come back. They can find you anywhere with all this technology, you can't hide from them nowadays. You might even get sent to a mental institution, your father already thinks you're insane, he told you so, he got a psychologist to say so, and you have to behave in such a way as to prove that you're not. You have no choices, you're stuck here. Besides, you have no money and you'd likely die without help eventually. Anyone who helped you would just contact your family to come and get you, and they'd just be angry. It would be a lot of effort wasted. So just resist passively... do as little as you can, only what you're told and nothing else, don't give them the satisfaction of seeing you enjoy yourself, or seeing you rebel and give them the satisfaction of thinking they have the power to make you hurt with their rules and punishments. Remain compliant, stoic, and miserable, make them feel guilty. When asked what's wrong, repeat your demands. It will take a long time, but eventually you'll get what you seek when they find that nothing else helps."
    The squeaky wheel gets the grease

    And sure enough, after 3-4 years of passive resistance at my father's house, he gave up and let me come back home to my mother.
    3-4 years of shit that you shouldn't have put up with.

    My persona, is likely the kind of persona one might develop if one's sanity were questioned at the exact time they began showing signs of independence. Some part of me is afraid that if I appear anything but completely sane and reasonable in my decisions, I'll wind up in a rubber room or something.
    The only one who can prove to society as a whole whether you belong in that room or not is you. You're past the age of majority - parental opinion doesn't factor in anymore.

    Well, yes, of course it's a good thing. That was never my point. It isn't that I would be permanently hurt by failures, it's that I don't see how I'm going to get multiple chances if I hurt my relationship with my family too badly, and then have no one in the world who would help me.
    Sure there is. You probably have more social support methods than you think. Trust in yourself - even more so because it seems like others do not.

    It is. That's why I'm seeking a job interview (right, at this point I can't even get an interview). It's just that I can't find it in me to keep pumping out effort into job applications and putting myself out there when I haven't gotten results so far. It's very hard for me to wrap my mind around the concept of valuing persistence when it comes to repeating something that doesn't even offer feedback, and for which I've gotten no feedback to help me improve. If I were getting some sort of feedback other than silence to help me improve each time, I would be able to deal with it.
    You think many of us are particularly enthralled with persistence? It's practically anathema to a P's nature. However, we didn't write the rules, but we've got to put up with them. Sometimes, you're going to have to keep plugging away at something that's seemingly pointless, just because there's no other option.

    I'm probably going to manage something eventually, but it's going to be very hard since I'm going to have to fight my emotions and instincts very, very hard to do it.
    Don't think about doing it. Start doing it. Fear is temporary, glory eternal.

  2. #12
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    I
    Posts
    3,104

    Default

    Everything onemoretime said.^^

  3. #13
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    3,823

    Default



    Good reflections in this thread.

    Know what every single happy person in the world has in common? They have all failed--not just once, but over and over. They recognize that imperfection is characteristic of the human experience, and to attempt to live otherwise is to devalue one's humanity. Everybody's failed, Ath. Everyone. Over and over again.

    Embrace it. Beauty in the broken.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #14
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Quit fearing failure. You will have to fail multiple times before you succeed. That's called life. Keep making multiple stabs at it until something works.
    I'm not afraid of failure in and of itself, I'm afraid of not being given another chance after failing. Will I?

    If I CAN fail multiple times before I succeed, that's fine. I do great when I can practice with something I'm allowed to fail at multiple times before succeeding. If I'm expected to get it right the first time or never make it, then I can't do that. It's just that I'm often given the impression by the way many things are written that there's no room for error, and I won't get another chance if I fail once.

    You're still a kid at 21; don't worry about thinking you're too old to find yourself. Everyone does it at different times. What seems like an objective standard is actually an accumulation of multiple subjective standards, so concern yourself not with it.
    Okay, then. I believe you.
    Do you know what the process is? You alluded to it in the last sentence. The process is dealing with the bullshit that you have to, without making excuses for what you want to do. If you aren't interested in driving, but you have to drive in order to attain your goals, guess what - you better just hold your nose and learn how to get behind the wheel. Prioritize. Keep your eye on the bigger picture.
    I don't want to deal with the expenses of having a car. I'd need a job that much better just to pay for a car and and insurance. The costs are unreasonable given the kind of job and pay levels I'm qualified for. The need to pay for a car will keep me dependent and further away from my goals for that much longer.

    Besides, we do have public transportation in Dallas. It's just that I won't have it if I try to take a job that's outside their service area, which pretty much covers the whole city and some of the nearby ones. Not only that, even if I learned, I wouldn't have anyone to pay for the car, gas, and insurance until I got a job anyway. So I even if I had a driver's license, I wouldn't be able to use the car in my job hunt. Which is, honestly, when it would be the most useful.


    Fuck what they think. Honestly. Don't give two shits about that opinion if it's going to hold you back from your goals. You're going to have to deal with haters your entire life - the trick is to either ignore them or use them as motivation.
    Hey, it's not their opinion I'm afraid of. It's the fact that I'm depending on them to survive right now that I'm afraid of. If I were financially independent, I'd tell them off and never deal with them again.

    The squeaky wheel gets the grease

    3-4 years of shit that you shouldn't have put up with.
    Umm... don't know what you're talking about there.


    The only one who can prove to society as a whole whether you belong in that room or not is you. You're past the age of majority - parental opinion doesn't factor in anymore.
    Right. I just hope others don't think the way my parents do...

    Sure there is. You probably have more social support methods than you think. Trust in yourself - even more so because it seems like others do not.
    Yeah, probably... it's not like I've actually gone up to people and tried to talk to them.


    You think many of us are particularly enthralled with persistence? It's practically anathema to a P's nature. However, we didn't write the rules, but we've got to put up with them. Sometimes, you're going to have to keep plugging away at something that's seemingly pointless, just because there's no other option.

    Don't think about doing it. Start doing it. Fear is temporary, glory eternal.
    There isn't a part of me that just "does," or if there is it doesn't listen to what I want. That's the problem.

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post


    Good reflections in this thread.

    Know what every single happy person in the world has in common? They have all failed--not just once, but over and over. They recognize that imperfection is characteristic of the human experience, and to attempt to live otherwise is to devalue one's humanity. Everybody's failed, Ath. Everyone. Over and over again.

    Embrace it. Beauty in the broken.
    I don't see any beauty in it, or believe in the human experience nonsense, but I can believe that people have to fail repeatedly to succeed. Fits my understanding of things. Okay, then... obviously they don't expect me to perform perfectly or never get another chance. That's useful to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I see this as a practical problem.
    What about studies? You are intelligent, so why not.
    Are there scholarships? Free schools? Applications for ones? Relatives?
    I was considering this option myself, but there don't seem to be a lot of opportunities to study what I want to study. My Dad only wants to help me go to school if I can tell him what I want to major in, and what career I intend to pursue afterwards that it will help me with. And I don't have a specific career in mind, because I'm willing to take whatever I can find at first that it qualifies me for.

    And I don't qualify for any kind of support in this action outside of my Dad, because he makes enough money that I don't qualify for any of it. Even though I don't live with him currently. Which means I'd need to get a job to pay for it myself if I wanted to go...

  6. #16
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    3,823

    Default

    ^Ath, having been there about schooling, the secret is to claim a major with great confidence.

    This is my life plan. I'm going to this, and I'm going to this, and then that. And then. You change your major, like, literally, no word of a lie, probably 90% of the students who declared a major.

    I was a chemistry major, then a psychology major, and now I'm a liberal arts major. All declared with confidence as if I had a plan.

    (Geez, what do these people think? You can't know what you fit with if you haven't explored it yet! And then you're supposed to stave off the growth that happens once you do some exploration in academia? To ignore that which beckons you?)
    J.K. Rowling did it on her parents too. Join the club.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #17
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    ^Ath, having been there about schooling, the secret is to claim a major with great confidence.

    This is my life plan. I'm going to this, and I'm going to this, and then that. And then. You change your major, like, literally, no word of a lie, probably 90% of the students who declared a major.

    I was a chemistry major, then a psychology major, and now I'm a liberal arts major. All declared with confidence as if I had a plan.
    Okay, maybe that's a good idea. The four majors I've shown interest in are Computer Science, Cognitive Sciences, Business, and Liberal Arts, incidentally. I like Liberal Arts, but my Dad thinks it's just a "bullshit degree" that you can't actually get a job with.

    He doesn't think I could do Computer Science because I'm not good at keeping up with new things and changes, so I guess I'll need to tell him business. He owns his own business, surely he'd respect that major. Then, maybe later, I could either go with it or change it.
    (Geez, what do these people think? You can't know what you fit with if you haven't explored it yet! And then you're supposed to stave off the growth that happens once you do some exploration in academia? To ignore that which beckons you?)
    J.K. Rowling did it on her parents too. Join the club.
    It's just that my parents don't really have a lot of respect for the idea of someone growing or exploring. Neither my mother or father finished high school, and got married at a very young age, so they see me as being way ahead of the game (because I finished High School) and failing to live up to my potential. They see college as something for entitled rich snobs.

    I've kind of been told that growing and exploring is for stupid people with a sense of entitlement, or something. That you should just know what you want already. Maybe it's because they're both STs. They certainly have rubbed off on me in some negative ways.

  8. #18
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    3,823

    Default

    ^ my ISFJ mom is like that too, Ath.


    I'd go for cognitive sciences. That's the common string throughout all of my interests (biochemistry pulled me in through brain chemistry; psychology is obvious because there's cognitive psychology; and my liberal arts degree analyzes the same stuff but without any pretense of scientific method).

    The borders between disciplines are imaginary, anyway. They don't really exist.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  9. #19
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTEBo2KNoT8"].[/YOUTUBE]
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #20
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    I've felt very similarly to you a few times in the past.

    It sounds like you're quite depressed and have almost crippling anxiety, masked by a conscious explanation of perfectionism.

    The thing is, knowing everything doesn't really solve anything. It's all about reinforcement learning. What I mean is this -- I'm sure you have a bunch of strategies for how you'd like to do things, but then are too scared to implement them. Well, you really gotta just give it a go once, then positively reinforce yourself for trying. Every time you take a risk, find some way to positively reinforce yourself, so that eventually there'll be a domino effect and you'll get more and more gain from your strategies, more confidence so more ability to implement them, more happiness so more energy to implement them, more excitement that things are changing so more incentive to change, etc.

    You gotta induce a positive feedback loop.

    Now, I know this is way easier said than done. If I were you, I'd look into anti-depressant/anti-anxiety mediation. I personally am on Zoloft, which is an SSRI that mainly treats depression, but has positive effects on social anxiety and OCD-like symptoms. Before I started taking it I was in a huge hole, and didn't want to take "the easy way out", whatever that means. But sometimes you need a little kick in the right direction to learn how to kick yourself. Once a significant chunk of the negative feelings (which reduce directly to neurotransmitter distributions) are gone, you'll be so much more able to do positive things that you may be able to induce the feedback loop. And once you're on a positive roll, you can take the drugs back out.

    Nothing wrong with using the help that's out there.

Similar Threads

  1. [JCF] 4 Dichotomies, with Functions but no stacks?
    By Bardsandwarriors in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 06-18-2017, 11:11 AM
  2. I know Si is somewhere in my function stack, but I'm not sure exactly where.
    By jadves in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-03-2016, 05:31 PM
  3. Programmers are a tiny bit introverted, but otherwise agreeable
    By Seymour in forum Other Personality Systems
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-20-2016, 12:30 AM
  4. Anyone consider themself an intro/extravert, but your functions suggest otherwise?
    By roastingmallows in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-12-2013, 12:29 PM
  5. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-06-2009, 08:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO