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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Really?

    Read up on Algerian ghettos.
    But we have ghettos here for Mexicans, even for African-Americans which is outrageous. So your little statement proves nothing for your argument that our country is somehow bubbling with fantastic opportunity that people lack in Western Europe.

  2. #82
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    And one of the finest things about the US is that in most of our major cities we allow our clinically insane to wander around the streets without factoring mental health care sufficiently into the state budget.
    State budgets are all sorts of fucked up. I never said they weren't. And yes, I have a problem with nutty bums wondering around the town.

    But unfortunately there are also people who think that taking nutty bums off the street and putting them into some of kind of facility where they can either be afforded some simple work is seen as fascist.

    You can offer as much mental health as you can, but some people need to be forcefully brought into the mental care facility. That does not sit with a lot of people.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  3. #83
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Ok, let's backtrack then: Are you stating that people cycle from malnourished to fat on regular basis?
    I think that malnourished people could very well be fat. Being fat just means your body is storing up everything it can get...

    I've heard of malnourished people in underdeveloped countries being fat as well, but I'd have to check.


    There are social safety nets afforded to people such as unemployment insurance, welfare, and foodstamps.

    Yes living on either one of those sucks (I would know), but you won't starve to death.
    True. If you're out of a job and qualify for one of those programs, you won't starve to death. I agree with that.

    I know you are serious. I was out of a job just this year, so I would know first hand.

    All I'm saying is, you won't starve to death in America, unless you are clinically insane.
    Okay, maybe that is pretty unlikely. They'd literally have to fall through all the cracks, somehow be unemployed, have no one to help them out, and still be ineligible for all the social programs you mentioned before they'd be stuck in the situation I described.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    State budgets are all sorts of fucked up. I never said they weren't. And yes, I have a problem with nutty bums wondering around the town.

    But unfortunately there are also people who think that taking nutty bums off the street and putting them into some of kind of facility where they can either be afforded some simple work is seen as fascist.

    You can offer as much mental health as you can, but some people need to be forcefully brought into the mental care facility. That does not sit with a lot of people.
    Actually there are people who willingly want to be in health facilities who can't stay there longer than a few days because there just isn't funding for it. Or who are just so disturbed they honestly don't know what's going on one way or the other.

    And to hospitalize someone who is TRULY out of their mind with dementia, schizophrenia, alzheimers, etc. isn't "fascist" it's compassion. That's why legal documents contain statements such as "I, being of SOUND MIND..." and there also exists such a thing as power of attorney. I'm not suggesting we keep folks with mild cases of bipolar disorder or generalized anxiety disorder in institutions.

  5. #85
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    For all the years I lived in this country, I am yet to see a single person eat from a garbage can.
    I have seen people eat out of garbage cans several times. Perhaps San Francisco bums just do things differently.

    As for the op and the rest of whatever disagreement is happening, I actually cannot be bothered to comment.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  6. #86
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    But we have ghettos here for Mexicans, even for African-Americans which is outrageous. So your little statement proves nothing for your argument that our country is somehow bubbling with fantastic opportunity that people lack in Western Europe.
    Look, I wasn't born in the US. I immigrated here with my family when I was 12. I also had the opportunity to travel around the world in my adult life, so I had a chance to compare.

    As many problems as the US has, in this country the handicaps of one's race and social background are fairly minimal compare to other countries.

    You think Europe affords more opportunities? By all means, pursue those opportunities. As far as I am concerned, US offers the most opportunities. That's why I live here. If it didn't, I'd move someplace else.

    My only loyalty is to reason.
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Yeah, but it's all going to older people who have experience and college degrees. And people with ridiculously good social skills who can sucker people into hiring them.

    The opportunity only exists for experienced, connected, or talented people.
    Yea that's the way capitalism works. Those who are able to perform the job best (i.e. the most capable) get the job.

  8. #88
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    I have seen people eat out of garbage cans several times. Perhaps San Francisco bums just do things differently.

    As for the op and the rest of whatever disagreement is happening, I actually cannot be bothered to comment.
    I guess New York bums have more class.

    Anyway, the fact that a bum eats out of trashcan doesn't mean he has to eat out of trashcan. San Fransisco spends something like $200 mil a year on bums (iirc). That sounds like more than enough to pay for each bums 3-meals-a-day ticket.

    The reason most bums are bums is not because they are down on their luck, but because they are mentally unstable. And people who are mentally unstable do shit like fish food out of a trashcan even when there are other opportunities available.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Yea that's the way capitalism works. Those who are able to perform the job best (i.e. the most capable) get the job.
    It's not that simple. The dollar used to be worth more. It used to be easier for working class people to own their own home. I even had a successful seventy year old man tell me the other day that even health care used to be cheaper because hospitals would compete with one another for business - which interestingly echoes something Ron Paul claimed in some of his speeches. I'm not a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination, but this little detail always bothers me a bit in terms of the present state of things. Also factor in tax cuts for the wealthy, and special breaks for large corporations...that actually isn't TRUE laissez-faire capitalism.

  10. #90
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I think that malnourished people could very well be fat. Being fat just means your body is storing up everything it can get...

    I've heard of malnourished people in underdeveloped countries being fat as well, but I'd have to check.
    You are thinking of malnourished children having a bloated belly. That's not obesity, that something to do with an accumulation of fluids due to lack of food.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

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