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  1. #51
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~~ENFJ~~ View Post
    You have to have the second job to afford the gym membership, the gas for driving to work in the huge SUV that doesn't hold all your 1.2 kids' soccer and key club supplies, the SUV payment, the day care costs for while you're working two jobs, the pet grooming, the yard maintenance, the hair highlighting and lowlighting, the convenience foods since you aren't home to be preparing them more, the tickets to some sort of expensive outlet to allow yourself scheduled downtime after the hectic and stress-filled week, etc.
    :cough:ESTJs:cough:
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #52
    Junior Member ~~ENFJ~~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    What ever happened to moderation? You know, doing enough work to earn money and lead a semi-comfortable existence, but then focus on other aspects of life? Didn't people ever do that?
    The American answer to that is "Put in your dues by working now and playing later because it is the early bird who catches the worm."

    You work, work, work, work, work so you can save for retirement, at which time it is socially acceptable, and expected, that you will stop working and only appreciate leisure activities.
    Tilde
    Classic ENFJ woman--passionate, loyal, misunderstood
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  3. #53
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    The American Dream... I don't know. It doesn't sound like anything more than pure idealism that anyone who thinks highly of themselves and humanity could come up with.
    No, the American Dream is a destinct concept that anyone, despite their ethnic background or class, can achieve immense wealth and prestige based solely on their work ethic and innovation - and that America is the only country that would allow such success to flourish.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~~ENFJ~~ View Post
    You have to have the second job to afford the gym membership, the gas for driving to work in the huge SUV that doesn't hold all your 1.2 kids' soccer and key club supplies, the SUV payment, the day care costs for while you're working two jobs, the pet grooming, the yard maintenance, the hair highlighting and lowlighting, the convenience foods since you aren't home to be preparing them more, the tickets to some sort of expensive outlet to allow yourself scheduled downtime after the hectic and stress-filled week, etc.

    I know a lot of people who choose not to live this way, but they're definitely counter-cultural. And America is a place where being counter-cultural is increasingly a strong undercurrent to the culture. Our culture tends to identify more by saying what we aren't than by saying what we are. We aren't British. We aren't racist. We aren't wasteful. We don't do that. We wouldn't do that. Whatever.
    Living [renting mind you] in a kinda well-to-do suburb surrounded by even more well-to-do suburbs, this rings painfully home...
    Now we just need to add in "tummy tucks" and "hyper-parenting"...

  5. #55
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slant View Post
    America...first thing that comes to mind....
    Capitalism.
    Adam Smith was English...

    Quote Originally Posted by ~~ENFJ~~ View Post
    The American answer to that is "Put in your dues by working now and playing later because it is the early bird who catches the worm."

    You work, work, work, work, work so you can save for retirement, at which time it is socially acceptable, and expected, that you will stop working and only appreciate leisure activities.
    But... I don't want the worm. When I did I express interest in the worm?

    If I wait until I can retire, I'll be too old to enjoy the sort of things I want to do. And it's not like I need a lot of money to do the things I want to, because they're not really material things. Mostly conversations, buying books, maybe eating, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar
    No, the American Dream is a destinct concept that anyone, despite their ethnic background or class, can achieve immense wealth and prestige based solely on their work ethic and innovation - and that America is the only country that would allow such success to flourish.


    That'll be the day! The American Dream is not rooted in American Reality at all. I wish, LOL!

    They should start calling it the American Delusion. I've seen little evidence that things often work that way in America. Many can't even find a job despite searching desperately.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Adam Smith was English...



    But... I don't want the worm. When I did I express interest in the worm?

    If I wait until I can retire, I'll be too old to enjoy the sort of things I want to do. And it's not like I need a lot of money to do the things I want to, because they're not really material things. Mostly conversations, buying books, maybe eating, etc.
    An INF in an EST culture, but at least you share the J

  7. #57
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Adam Smith was English...



    But... I don't want the worm. When I did I express interest in the worm?

    If I wait until I can retire, I'll be too old to enjoy the sort of things I want to do. And it's not like I need a lot of money to do the things I want to, because they're not really material things. Mostly conversations, buying books, maybe eating, etc.




    That'll be the day! The American Dream is not rooted in American Reality at all. I wish, LOL!

    They should start calling it the American Delusion. I've seen little evidence that things often work that way in America. Many can't even find a job despite searching desperately.
    The problem is, you can only see the American dream when you are sleeping, now wake up...looks like you already have...

  8. #58
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Many can't even find a job despite searching desperately.
    Well, in the American Dream, you generally start a business, not find a job.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #59
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    We are very entrepreunerial [sp?] in spirit. Freedom, capitolism, entrepreunerial character. "Leave me and my money alone!" I once heard a business owner say "Economic freedo is the ONLY freedom that matters" He also said "CNN is on the left, Fox news is in the middle, and I']m on the right"

  10. #60
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Well, in the American Dream, you generally start a business, not find a job.
    You know, that's interesting. I had someone do an astrology reading for me recently (just for fun), and they basically told me that I had an unusual concentration of Cardinal signs in my nature, but that I was likely to be deluded about this in myself and go around in circles.

    This essentially boiled down to the fact that unless I took all the risks myself, and "ran the show," I wasn't likely to get a place in the show. Basically, that unless I started a business myself, I wasn't likely to get a job. That I'd have to create whatever I was looking for rather than continuing to seek it.

    Really, really hoping it doesn't turn out that way... I haven't developed leadership qualities because I never thought I'd need them.

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