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  1. #131
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Have you ever really listened to American composers? I mean, really really listened to them?

    We do too have culture, in the cultured sense. You just can't tell because it's used as the "beef, it's what for dinner" song.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #132
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Not necessarily, no. I stated this once before in this thread that yes, of course, the United States is a wonderful, wonderful place compared to third world countries. I'd rather be in the US than probably 85% of the world.

    On the other hand, I think there's a logical fallacy in comparing this country to those poorer or more oppressive cultures, and the real contrast should be made between the US and Canada, Western Europe, and Japan.
    The reason why we compare it to third world countries instead of Canada, Western Europe, and Japan is because most of the people who come here are from these third world countries instead of these other places.

    America, for the most part, doesn't believe in more cohesive society. We're too regional for that. It's the same with the educational system. Places that feel the need to keep up their educational system will keep it up. However, we're not going to do it for the people in the state (or even county) next door unless it's a natural disaster. The American sense of community is very small and very personal.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The reason why we compare it to third world countries instead of Canada, Western Europe, and Japan is because most of the people who come here are from these third world countries instead of these other places.

    America, for the most part, doesn't believe in more cohesive society. We're too regional for that. It's the same with the educational system. Places that feel the need to keep up their educational system will keep it up. However, we're not going to do it for the people in the state (or even county) next door unless it's a natural disaster. The American sense of community is very small and very personal.
    I see your point, and even agree. But the greater concern should fall with 1st world nations because that is who we are largely working with - and competing against - particularly with this whole mindset some people have a global American hegemony.

    I like individualism of the United States, but taken to extremes it's foolishly short-sighted.

  4. #134
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Have you ever really listened to American composers? I mean, really really listened to them?

    We do too have culture, in the cultured sense. You just can't tell because it's used as the "beef, it's what for dinner" song.
    Aside from "beef, it's what for dinner" song, I'd say George Gershwin had a few nice tunes. I also like Bernard Herrman.

    And those were the "classically trained" composers. I'm guessing the whole jazz and rock and roll thing has to count for something too.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  5. #135
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I see your point, and even agree. But the greater concern should fall with 1st world nations because that is who we are largely working with - and competing against - particularly with this whole mindset some people have a global American hegemony.

    I like individualism of the United States, but taken to extremes it's foolishly short-sighted.
    But small community is a part of our culture. Fuck, that is our culture. When settlers came to America, transportation was suck. When they moved out west, transportation was suck. You learned to care about your little homestead and the little nearby town and that was your world, even if you had come there from out east or the Far East or the West or anything. And you stuck together so hard because the snow drifts were coming in winter and you were alone with your family and that little town.

    I found it! I found American culture! It's there! Hallelujah!
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    But small community is a part of our culture. Fuck, that is our culture. When settlers came to America, transportation was suck. When they moved out west, transportation was suck. You learned to care about your little homestead and the little nearby town and that was your world, even if you had come there from out east or the Far East or the West or anything. And you stuck together so hard because the snow drifts were coming in winter and you were alone with your family and that little town.

    I found it! I found American culture! It's there! Hallelujah!
    Yes, exactly, and that's wonderful. But it's also only partly true. As early as the 19th century the United States was invading Cuba, the Phillipines, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and Alaska with decided imperialism. Not as "small community" as the romantic Americana pushers want to paint.

    Then again, this is the 21st century. That type of living became less and less realistic during and after World War I. That was almost 100 years ago.

    I mean, I like small community. I think having a sense of community is very important, and it's actually dying out in this country in predominant American cities like New York, L.A., etc. So the "culture" we're sending to the world at large isn't small community at all - most people see the US as New York or L.A.

    I'm all for grass roots and buying local. I do appreciate American culture in that sense. I'm a Clinton-type democrat.

  7. #137
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    But small community is a part of our culture. Fuck, that is our culture. When settlers came to America, transportation was suck. When they moved out west, transportation was suck. You learned to care about your little homestead and the little nearby town and that was your world, even if you had come there from out east or the Far East or the West or anything. And you stuck together so hard because the snow drifts were coming in winter and you were alone with your family and that little town.

    I found it! I found American culture! It's there! Hallelujah!
    Oh my goodness. I think you're right.

    That explains why it's been so hard for me to "break out," of that little existence, because there's nothing "out there" to go into. It really feels like I'm expected to just be satisfied with my little family and my little job (if I could only find one), and being stuck in the same location with the same ties. There's also this frustrating tendency my mom told me about for people to only associate with people after they've been consistently on the same routine for a long time. Which is hard on me because I'm not currently very motivated to stay on a routine (nor do I really find it feasible at this point, since I can't base it on any necessity) or focus on "doing things."

    And yet, I'm scared to do anything else, because I know that's "normal." Huh.

    So that's American culture... this ineffable thing and way of being I've been trying and failing to transcend this whole time.

    Interesting.

  8. #138
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yes, exactly, and that's wonderful. But it's also only partly true. As early as the 19th century the United States was invading Cuba, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and Alaska with decided imperialism. Not as "small community" as the romantic Americana pushers want to paint.

    Then again, this is the 21st century. That type of living became less and less realistic during and after World War I. That was almost 100 years ago.

    I mean, I like small community. I think having a sense of community is very important, and it's actually dying out in this country in predominant American cities like New York, L.A., etc. So the "culture" we're sending to the world at large isn't small community at all - most people see the US as New York or L.A.

    I'm all for grass roots and buying local. I do appreciate American culture in that sense. I'm a Clinton-type democrat.
    Even if the 'small community' is gone doesn't mean the mindset is gone. The city I live in is still very 'small community' even if it is a big city. You've got your part of county and everybody knows what each side means about you and on and on. Seriously. It's not a big city, even, it's a collection of small communities, if you think about it that way.

    How many other cities are like this? I don't know, I guess I haven't analyzed them as much, but I can't think of mine as the only one like this.

    I guess in that way we're kind of backwards. It's local, unique events and festivals in each suburb being supported by huge conglomerations.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #139
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Oh my goodness. I think you're right.

    That explains why it's been so hard for me to "break out," of that little existence. It really feels like I'm expected to just be satisfied with my little family and my little job, and being stuck in the same location with the same ties. There's also this frustrating tendency my mom told me about for people to only associate with people after they've been consistently on the same routine for a long time. Which is hard on me because I'm not currently very motivated to stay on a routine (nor do I really find it feasible at this point, since I can't base it on any necessity) or focus on "doing things."

    And yet, I'm scared to do anything else, because I know that's "normal." Huh.

    So that's American culture... this ineffable thing and way of being I've been trying and failing to transcend this whole time.

    Interesting.
    No no no, that's wrong.

    It's also integral to American culture that newcomers to the small community be welcomed instead of shunned as outsiders. You're able and allowed to be mobile, it's just that you get a different community when you go somewhere else.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #140
    Your time is gonna come. Oom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Aside from "beef, it's what for dinner" song, I'd say George Gershwin had a few nice tunes. I also like Bernard Herrman.

    And those were the "classically trained" composers. I'm guessing the whole jazz and rock and roll thing has to count for something too.
    Don't forget the blues too.

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