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  1. #51
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Could you give your own answers to the original post, now that this thread is a few days old? For example, I still view scenario 1 as the best example of direct communication, but from reading this post I think you mean something different when you say "direct communication".
    I'd say scenario 4 is the best example of direct communication. I edited it for purposes of the thread to but here is the original quote:

    "Sit down and read this article I've written. Think about it carefully. Then I want to talk to you about when and how to use direct and indirect communication at work."
    The rest of the scenarios happened to me so I have my own feelings mixed into it. Scenario 4 (what I said to the lab tech), would be the second most direct, then scenario 1, finally scenario 2. All of those examples, IMO are examples of direct communication because I understood what they were getting at, which was basically get to work and in my case I wanted her to change her gloves and she understood that.

    Indirect communication to me would be an exchange that happens frequently between my boss and I.

    Me: Are there any particular projects you'd like to have an update on at our meeting?
    Boss: No, just bring what you think is important.

    What I think is important and what she thinks is important are could very well be two different things. Our meetings often end up that I bring absolutely everything I'm working on and spending time on things that are not priorities or could be handled through email.

    Then there's the aspect of interpersonal direct and indirect communication which is so complex that it's hard to even tackle without a bunch of background info and detail. I'm just trying to keep it simple so people can begin to think about their communication patterns.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  2. #52
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    The first example of indirect communication that springs to mind for me is the "Why doesn't he call?" scenario. To me, the answer is obvious -- he doesn't want to. I say this because I know that if a guy really wants to talk to you, he will FIND a way, if he has to snitch a cellphone out of somebody's purse at a party and sneak into a broom closet.

    To me, not calling speaks as loudly as calling.

    It's like in music, where the rests are as important to the melody as the notes.

  3. #53
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    What I think is important and what she thinks is important are could very well be two different things. Our meetings often end up that I bring absolutely everything I'm working on and spending time on things that are not priorities or could be handled through email..
    From the facts given:
    1) I think what your boss is demonstrating that she trusts your discretion and inititative. (the perogative belongs to the boss whether to be direct or no)

    and/or

    2) She is just covering her ass

    (also knowing both your and her type would be helpful in understanding the context and the indirect communication dynamic)



    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    The first example of indirect communication that springs to mind for me is the "Why doesn't he call?" scenario. To me, the answer is obvious -- he doesn't want to. I say this because I know that if a guy really wants to talk to you, he will FIND a way, if he has to snitch a cellphone out of somebody's purse at a party and sneak into a broom closet.

    To me, not calling speaks as loudly as calling.

    It's like in music, where the rests are as important to the melody as the notes.
    Consider reassessing the communication interpretation.

    I would say if it were me or most male friends I know he doesn't call because he doesn't think he needs to. Many women of your personality type I find "need" reassurance and their mates may understand that they "want" assurance but do not discover the need for reassurance until too late.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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  4. #54
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Me: Are there any particular projects you'd like to have an update on at our meeting?
    Boss: No, just bring what you think is important.

    What I think is important and what she thinks is important are could very well be two different things. Our meetings often end up that I bring absolutely everything I'm working on and spending time on things that are not priorities or could be handled through email.
    Lol.. could it be perhaps that your boss trusts your air of judgement and wants you to prioritise?

    My ENFJ doesn't like making decisions either... kind of odd but he somehow expects me to direct him
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #55
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Yeah, guys I'm not going into great detail. It's more along the lines of CYA than trusting judgment.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #56
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'd say scenario 4 is the best example of direct communication. I edited it for purposes of the thread to but here is the original quote:
    "Sit down and read this article I've written. Think about it carefully. Then I want to talk to you about when and how to use direct and indirect communication at work."
    Thanks for posting this. This actually seems more direct to me than the way stated in the OP.

    The rest of the scenarios happened to me so I have my own feelings mixed into it. Scenario 4 (what I said to the lab tech), would be the second most direct, then scenario 1, finally scenario 2. All of those examples, IMO are examples of direct communication because I understood what they were getting at, which was basically get to work and in my case I wanted her to change her gloves and she understood that.

    Indirect communication to me would be an exchange that happens frequently between my boss and I.
    ...
    This thread reminds me of an anecdote with my ESFJ mother. We were driving down the road and she says,
    "Look a Cracker Barrel up ahead. Would you like to eat there?"
    I say, "No, I'm not really hungry."
    After a couple minutes of silence she tells me, "I want to eat at Cracker Barrel."
    I reply, "Ok let's pull in there then."

    To me her first approach was indirect and the second time she was direct.
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  7. #57
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Would the degree to direct or indirect communication depend on personality preference. would having a developed T function be much more direct than having a developed F function. Is this a combination say as sensory is more concrete and intuition is more abstract in interpretation. Would T or F also depend on the abruptness in communication as opposed to too wordy. During maths I was told to be direct like maths.

    What is the difference between having a critical mind and an analytical mind? Would that perceiving and judging cause a difference in the direct or indirect communication too or just the thinking and feeling? Such as the need to be behind the scenes or directly giving the responses, to be laid-back or competitive or open ended and closed communications.

  8. #58
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    i find most Js are direct
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  9. #59
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    sorry for the thread necromancy, but i thought this was a great thread and it's something that's been on my mind lately sooooooo i thought it be nice to bring it back up for discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This is a returning topic in my mind, directness and assertiveness.

    I see very often on this forum (less so IRL, but whatever) someone often advising another person to be direct or complaining about the lack of directness from others, which often leads to declarations of insecurity and immaturity towards the "indirect" party.

    So I've been trying to think of some scenarios that I would like people to categorize as direct or indirect. I'm trying to figure out what exactly are people's ideas of direct. All of these scenarios have happened to me.

    ...

    How would people rate the directness of each of these scenes?

    I wonder if directness is related to a person's ability to pick up on hints, innuendos, and reading between the lines. Think about alternate versions of each scenario as well, i.e. being perceived as bossy, authoritarian, micromanaging, passive, etc.

    Also, this ties into calling people passive-aggressive as well. I sometimes think one person's passive-aggressiveness is another's blunt force trauma. One person will accuse another of being passive-aggressive, while the accusee will assert they were being direct. Once again, I think it depends on how a person defines direct and how much directness is necessary for them to pick up on what others are saying.

    Thoughts?


    Scene 1
    When I worked at Starbucks and when it was slow us baristas would sit around talk. If we still had unfinished duties to do the manager would eventually start assigning us tasks around the store (effectively ending our chat sessions) but did not say anything to us about our socializing.
    Direct- the key for me here is "if we still had unfinished duties"; i don't see why socializing is a problem if everything is done and i'm not sure most really would, but if it's not, to me what a supervisor wants us to do if he's assigning tasks is very clear.

    Scene 2
    When I worked at Victoria's Secret I so enjoyed one of my coworkers there. Basically we'd come to work just to talk and hang out. We'd typically choose some low customer interaction task and chit chat while we were working. Once our manager came up to us in full conversational thrall and said, "My! Aren't you two chatty Cathys!"
    Indirect- and bordering on passive aggressive as well as rude and ineffective. Do you want me to totally shut up? Not talk quite as much? Do you want us to keep the volume down? What exactly do you want?

    I would not respond well to this kind of communication, i'd likely respond by initially keeping quiet out of feeling embarrassed or "bad", but as soon as they'd leave i'd probably go back to talking and talk shit...especially if i actually was working in the first place.

    Scene 3
    Recently I went to get blood drawn, the lab tech put on gloves and opened every drawer in the area looking for something and even left the room and I heard her rifling through drawers in the other room. She came back to me smiled and said "OK, ready!" I waited to see if she was going to change gloves again but when she picked up my arm I said "Are you going to change your gloves?"
    Direct- or rather it's a direct question marking the beginning of a direct exchange. I'd imagine the convo going something like

    "are you going to change your gloves?"

    *option 1 (most likely)*
    "yes" :: changes gloves ::

    *option 2*
    "no"
    "well do you think you could, please?"
    "ok"

    Scenario 4 (stole this one)
    Imagine you've just hired a new consultant whose job is to help you improve your communication. The first time you meet with her, she hands you an article and says, "Sit down and read this article I've written. Think about it carefully. Then I want to talk to you about it."
    Mostly direct- She tells me exactly what she is expecting me to contribute in this activity, but isn't specific with her goals yet. however, i can get a pretty good idea about where this is going. Considering the context, that i'm hiring someone to help me improve my communication skills, it's easy to draw from that.

    if this were being asked of me, i would assume either that a conclusion/reason would follow after discussion of the article, or that discussion of the article actually is the reason. in this case i can see how giving too much info in terms of what goals she wants to achieve with this activity could be counter-productive; the reader might be inclined to "find" the "correct" information, rather give her the information she actually needs.

    basically, if it's clear they have a goal in mind and can get a good sense of what it is they want me to do and/or why, i consider it being direct. i don't see direct as necessarily being "specific" or "blunt", although it could.
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  10. #60
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This is a returning topic in my mind, directness and assertiveness.


    Scene 1
    When I worked at Starbucks and when it was slow us baristas would sit around talk. If we still had unfinished duties to do the manager would eventually start assigning us tasks around the store (effectively ending our chat sessions) but did not say anything to us about our socializing.
    Indirect but effective and still clear what the manager wants. Also doesn't insult your socializing but instead steers your energy into something more productive. I would be okay with this sort of management style.


    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Scene 2
    When I worked at Victoria's Secret I so enjoyed one of my coworkers there. Basically we'd come to work just to talk and hang out. We'd typically choose some low customer interaction task and chit chat while we were working. Once our manager came up to us in full conversational thrall and said, "My! Aren't you two chatty Cathys!"
    Indirect and smells of passive/agressive sarcasm. I would be offended by that remark and would have to bite my tongue not to get defensive. Worse, it doesn't tell you what specifically the coworker could be doing to be more productive. All it suggests is the coworker is wasting time in unproductive chit-chat. I do not this sort of management style.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Scene 3
    Recently I went to get blood drawn, the lab tech put on gloves and opened every drawer in the area looking for something and even left the room and I heard her rifling through drawers in the other room. She came back to me smiled and said "OK, ready!" I waited to see if she was going to change gloves again but when she picked up my arm I said "Are you going to change your gloves?"
    It uses the informing style of communication and no directive is issued but its pretty obvious that your intention is to get the lab tech to change her gloves. Its effective in that its pretty clear that the lab tech knows what she needs to do but I think if I were the lab tech I'd be a little embarrased that I didn't change my gloves. Still, it's not an overly offensive remark like the previous example was.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Scenario 4 (stole this one)
    Imagine you've just hired a new consultant whose job is to help you improve your communication. The first time you meet with her, she hands you an article and says, "Sit down and read this article I've written. Think about it carefully. Then I want to talk to you about it."
    Very direct, almost too much so. Comes across as rather demanding. Still I'd much prefer bossy to the passive aggressive informing style in the second example.

    I also find that even though I tend to use the informing style of communication more than the directive style (INTPs are informing types), I often prefer a more directive style since at least its clear where you stand and there's none of that passive-aggressive manipulative sometimes found with the informing styles. Of course, I don't want someone overly demanding either. I like gentle directives.
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