My Problems with Psychologists

[Ginkgo]

This is probably the last thread I'm going to start, at least for now. Thank you all for your assistance.

Ever since childhood, I have had perplexing conflicts with my counselors, psychologists, and teachers.

This rebellious mindset was probably born when my parents made the decision for me to see a counselor. I thought they were being foolish and hypocritical by not looking at themselves. I knew they were projecting their problems and misfortunes on me, using me as a scapegoat. And as far as I was concerned, it prevented them from maturing and growing out of their depressed rut. Unfortunately, whenever I explained this to them, they shut their ears and refused to listen.

I even had problems in academia because I was incredibly judgmental of my teachers and friends. Despite my success with grades, my teachers would tell me to "stop being spoon fed", to which I retorted, "Then stop spoon feeding me...". I never manipulated them or anything, so I'm sure they just wanted me to fulfill my fullest potential. However, once again, we have this same problem of my authority figures not being able to see my perspective.

Half a year ago, my mother brought me to an academic adviser because she wanted to convince me to go to a particular college. Whenever I explained her motives to her, she refused to acknowledge them.

So, when I started speaking to this counselor, I could immediately tell that he was trying to manipulate me. He was touching on issues about my personality that nobody knows, and that he claimed to have just "picked up" by seeing me twice beforehand. I then realized that my mother must have given him some of my files prior to the appointment.

So, every time he would make an appeal to me, I would subtly object to it in a perfectly convincing way. In the back of my mind, I was laughing hysterically at his confusion and frustration to my responses. Then I asked him if he had taken any Psychology classes in college. He responded positively, and then he knew that I was playing mind games with him the whole 30 minutes we were there.

Meanwhile, my ESFP mother sat there completely oblivious to what was happening.

I'm sure to some of you, I sound like an evil asshole by now.

However, my purpose in making this post was not to illustrate how much of a douche I am. On the contrary, I want to stop this behavior of mine because it is impeding my progress. I want some input from someone else. And, ironically, I want to become a counselor myself.

Even now, I pay a 6 dollar co-pay just to go to a professional psychologist and confuse him.

 

[Tyrant]

I'm not sure what to tell you, but I suppose I have a similar problem. My mother often talks about how I don't exhibit "normal" behavior and how "I need to see somebody." It's nonsense to me specifically because whenever she suggests such a thing whatever I've said is completely logical. Of course when I ask what evidence point to this, she usually presents jokes taken largely out of context.

Hell, I remember going to the doctor a few weeks ago, and within about 5 minutes of interaction, he reasons that I should see a counselor.

 

[Ginkgo]

Hell, I remember going to the doctor a few weeks ago, and within about 5 minutes of interaction, he reasons that I should see counselor.

I have this problem too. I remember going to see a psychiatrist who gave me a 5 minute survey which concluded I had ADD. He hardly even observed me.

The survey had seemingly irrelevant questions like "Do you scratch your feet at night?" and "Do you have any pets at home?"

 

[BlackCat]

Being forced to get help often results in rebelling against it.

You should just treat everyone differently who is a psychologist or a counselor, you might actually get something out of it. Why expect EVERY counselor to be that way based on a few examples? Don't let the bad apple ruin the bunch. They are just doing their job, and if you just mess with them then it will be naturally inaccurate, since you are purposefully not being accurate with your representation of yourself and your answers to their questions.

 

[Mole]

My friend, Winona, interprets my motivation very accurately. However she then tells whoever I am with what my present motivation is.

Sometimes my present motivation is vanity or insecurity and to have this broadcast to those around me is embarrassing.

There are two striking things about Winona. The first is that she is very accurate in describing motivation. And the second is that she doesn't realise she is making a social faux pas.

I am fond of Winona and I think she like me. And I value her accurate description of my motivation. But I can see she is socially excluded because of her faux pas.

Winona does spend some time with her psychiatrist and the psychiatrist has diagnosed Winona with a mental illness.

And Winona seems to think that if a psychiatrist can describe her motivation to the world, then she will reply in kind and describe the motivation of those around her to the world.

Winona is in a power relationship with her psychiatrist where the psychiatrist has the power and she has none. Naturally this is unpleasant for her, so to compensate Winona identifies with the psychiatrist and does to other people what the psychiatrist does to her.

So Winona is showing us the relationship with her psychiatrist. And it is show not tell. In other words her behaviour is a metaphor for her relationship with her psychiatrist. And what is interesting is that neither Winona nor her psychiatrist know this.

Unfortunately her psychiatrist is simply deaf to behavioural metaphor.

And interestingly I run into the same problem here, with many deaf to metaphor. In fact many actively dislike metaphor and ask me to speak to them literally. And this is because they come from a literal culture in which metaphor is a pejorative word.

And so in being literal minded they are only following their cultural imperative.

We all want to be good, and the way to be good is to follow whatever our cultural imperative happens to be. Unfortunately some cultural imperatives are simply limiting. And that is why a tertiary education aims to transcend the cultural we bring with us from primary and secondary education.

But like many patients, Winona wants to reverse the power roles and become a psychiatrist herself. And my heart breaks for her.

 

[Ginkgo]

My friend, Winona, interprets my motivation very accurately. However she then tells whoever I am with what my present motivation is.

Sometimes my present motivation is vanity or insecurity and to have this broadcast to those around me is embarrassing.

There are two striking things about Winona. The first is that she is very accurate in describing motivation. And the second is that she doesn't realise she is making a social faux pas.

I am fond of Winona and I think she like me. And I value her accurate description of my motivation. But I can see she is socially excluded because of her faux pas.

Winona does spend some time with her psychiatrist and the psychiatrist has diagnosed Winona with a mental illness.

And Winona seems to think that if a psychiatrist can describe her motivation to the world as a mental illness, then she will reply in kind and describe the motivation of those around her to the world.

Winona is in a power relationship with her psychiatrist where the psychiatrist has the power and she has none. Naturally this is unpleasant for her, so to compensate Winona identifies with the psychiatrist and does to other people what the psychiatrist does to her.

And like many patients Winona wants to reverse the roles and become a psychiatrist herself.

And my heart breaks for her.

I don't have this behavior in public unless someone pushes me to it, or if it is really needed. I am aware that it is antisocial.

However, you are right when you say it is a power struggle. It is so frustrating... I feel powerless most of the time.

I honestly don't try to lead my psychologist on. The superficiality of the whole agenda is overwhelmingly obvious to me.

Maybe we could just execute some additional ice-breaker exercises to reinforce trust?

 

[Mole]

Maybe we could just execute some additional ice-breaker exercises to reinforce trust?

A relationship with a psychologist is inherently unequal.

Essentially the psychologist plays the role of parent while you play the role of child.

And because this relationship is open to abuse, the psychologist follows a strict code of conduct.

And naturally you are expected to play the role of a child.

These roles can be helpful as they give the patient the opportunity to grow up again in a benign environment.

However if you try to overthrow or subvert the power of the psychologist, the environment turns toxic.

No doubt you come from a culture that was shaped by revolution and the overthrow of authority, so perhaps you are carrying out your cultural imperative in the office of your psychologist.

 

[Ginkgo]

No doubt you come from a culture that was shaped by revolution and the overthrow of authority, so perhaps you are carrying out your cultural imperative in the office of your psychologist.

Perhaps, but this is a dangerous generalization. Many humans, by nature, tend to be apposed to authority.

But aside from that, I should stop, you are right.

 

[Haphazard]

I have this problem too. I remember going to see a psychiatrist who gave me a 5 minute survey which concluded I had ADD. He hardly even observed me.

A psychiatrist diagnosed me with ADHD because I found the chair in the office particularly bouncy and bounced my butt on it a few times.

No seriously. They were incredibly bouncy.

And there were ads for ADHD medication all over the walls, on the clocks, on the stress balls, and on the pens.

Those chairs were that bouncy on purpose. I am sure of this.

 

[Ginkgo]

A psychiatrist diagnosed me with ADHD because I found the chair in the office particularly bouncy and bounced my butt on it a few times.

No seriously. They were incredibly bouncy.

And there were ads for ADHD medication all over the walls, on the clocks, on the stress balls, and on the pens.

Those chairs were that bouncy on purpose. I am sure of this.

Seriously, it's all a conspiracy to make you pay for placebos.

Where is a tin foil hat when you need one?

 

[Mole]

A psychiatrist diagnosed me with ADHD because I found the chair in the office particularly bouncy and bounced my butt on it a few times.

No seriously. They were incredibly bouncy.

And there were ads for ADHD medication all over the walls, on the clocks, on the stress balls, and on the pens.

Those chairs were that bouncy on purpose. I am sure of this.

And those chairs were installed by Big Pharma.

 

[Haphazard]

Seriously, it's all a conspiracy to make you pay for placebos.

Where is a tin foil hat when you need one?

That's the thing, though. They're not placebos.

 

[BlackCat]

Did you not see my response?

Being forced to get help often results in rebelling against it.

You should just treat everyone differently who is a psychologist or a counselor, you might actually get something out of it. Why expect EVERY counselor to be that way based on a few examples? Don't let the bad apple ruin the bunch. They are just doing their job, and if you just mess with them then it will be naturally inaccurate, since you are purposefully not being accurate with your representation of yourself and your answers to their questions.

 

[Mole]

Many humans, by nature, tend to be apposed to authority.

Children tend to accept authority. However the demographic of 'teenager' has been created for marketing purposes.

And the 'teenager' has been marketed as the rebel without a cause.

However in revolutionary societies like the US or France this inchoate teenage rebellion resonates with the bourgeois revolution that shaped both societies.

So on the one hand in these societies teenagers grow up absurd. But on the other hand, they are carrying out the cultural imperative of the bourgeois revolution.

And these two aspects of teenagers have set like reinforced concrete and are being exported to the world by the world's greatest propaganda machine, Hollywood.

 

[Ginkgo]

Did you not see my response?

Yes, sorry. My more logical mind tells me you are correct. However, whenever I sense superficiality, I want to dismantle it before it's own eyes.

All I can do is comply the next time.

To be honest, the main purpose of this thread was to see if someone else understood me. However, advice is interesting.

That's my problem. I don't even want advice.

@ Victor: I despise the American media, particularly television. I unraveled the mysteries of commercialism at a very young age.

 

[BlackCat]

Yes, sorry. My more logical mind tells me you are correct. However, whenever I sense superficiality, I want to dismantle it before it's own eyes.

All I can do is comply the next time.

To be honest, the main purpose of this thread was to see if someone else understood me. However, advice is interesting.

That's my problem. I don't even want advice.

Oh, my bad.

As long as you know what you need to do, and as long as you try to change the situation for the better, then my work here is done.

 

[Ginkgo]

Oh, my bad.

As long as you know what you need to do, and as long as you try to change the situation for the better, then my work here is done.

Indeed, thank you.

 

[SciVo]

However the demographic of 'teenager' has been created for marketing purposes.

I must take issue with this. While adolescents are over-studied by marketers, they are also under-studied by psychologists. I've heard that neuroscience has found that during adolescence, the brain is in a very different phase than before or after. The advent of sexuality produces an exploratory phase of wild neuron growth (as in babies) for discovering the rules of adult society, before eventually pruning unused paths (again). As a result of those infantile profuse neural tangles, teenagers actually have worse judgment than just before puberty. So, I believe that adolescence is a very distinct phase of life that deserves more professional attention, and not just from compliance professionals trying to sell something.

 

[compulsiverambler]

I like the psychologists and psychiatrists I've seen. I just find they're the only ones worth confiding in most of the time, because they're not too emotionally entangled and seem, at least, to understand what I'm talking about and have useful things to say. They don't tell me I'm analysing things too much, or look baffled or incredulous. I've never felt manipulated though, in a covert way, and I imagine I wouldn't like that. I've never had one try to push my buttons.

And God, I wish it were that easy to get diagnosed with ADHD in this country. There are just two free public clinics here with professionals qualified to diagnose it in adults, so if you're not wealthy or privately insured it often takes years from your initial GP's referral to get through the whole process. Not to mention the fact that most doctors haven't even heard of it lasting into adulthood and you've got an extremely high chance of being misdiagnosed with various mood and anxiety disorders first.

 

[Gloriana]

I've had a similar distrust of psychology professionals for most of my life. I was targeted at school for severe bullying starting at age 11, and after awhile I literally stopped going to school because no one would do anything to help the situation. I was forced to go to court, and then the laundry list of different psychologists/counselors began filling.

First one I ever had was at age 12, and the guy had this metal washer suspended from the end of a thread. He held the thing by the string until it was still, then asked a yes or no question out loud. The thing started moving, either back and forth or side to side to represent the "yes" or the "no". He told me to hold it and ask things aloud, questions like "Should I go back to school?" and "Is my mother upset by this?", etc.

He held my hand as I held the thing, under the guise of 'keeping it steady'. All of sudden the thing was telling me to go back to school, that my mother was upset, that it would be better for everyone if I missed no more days. He asked me if I was moving the little 'pendulum'. I looked him square in the eye and told him I wasn't, and he responded as if he was surprised like "Well I'm not either, how about that?".

I was only 12 but right then and there I just thought "You complete quack". The guy was basically using what amounted to a Ouija board as his method of child psychology, and it implanted a very deep distrust and skepticism in me about that profession. I was only 12 but I was not a fool, and felt extremely violated by that experience since this man held a lot of my fate in his hands (in terms of whether or not he would recommend me for juvenile hall).

I had a string of similar counselors in my younger years, and through my teens. These were state funded facilities most of the time, and while even then I knew they were most likely overworked and underpaid, it was often a bone of contention for me. After ten minutes of talking to me and reading some quick form I'd filled out, they would diagnose me as depressive with social anxiety, and it was like I ceased existing as a person.

I could personally own that I had lots of issues, but what I hated was how hard they tried to cram me into the parameters of their handy diagnosis criteria even if I did not fit there. I often took to messing with them myself, marveling at how irritable they would get when I told the truth and how seemingly enthused they were when I would lie but place myself into the criteria they wanted me to be in.

I did not give up on it entirely though. I did have the fortune to have one single therapist in my youth who actually listened and approached me as an individual with individual reasons for my depression and anxiety problems. I was only given 20 sessions with her by the state and was sad when it had to end. It stuck in my mind as proof there were decent psychologists out there.

I would say the majority of psychologists I had definitely pushed for medications first thing, either setting me up with the prescribing psychiatrist in the facility or sending me to a GP with a note so I could get pills. I've been on so many different meds I could not name them all now. They simply did not work, all they did was make me into a zombie. I was told I was combative for my resistance to meds, and I tried entertaining the idea they were right, trying to be open minded. In the end though, the meds just made it all worse (for me personally).

I did not see any significant change in my depression/anxiety until I was 23. I took it upon myself to start reading psychology books and reading every book I could my hands on about therapy techniques. I felt at home with cognitive therapy techniques immediately, and started applying them with my own schedules and lists. I worked my butt off, and after going through another handful of psychologists that could not help, I finally found one that I felt I could respect and trust.

I changed into a completely different person within the span of about three years of work, and I have not looked back since. I certainly still struggle with things but I am not what I once was, I am no longer at the mercy of depression and anxiety. I didn't use one pill to get here either. It was partly my proactive investment in what I guess is called "Bibliotherapy" and partly by finding a psychologist that was up front, confrontational without being condescending, with an ability to work WITH me as a team.

I can completely relate to being suspicious of certain mental health professionals, I think there are a lot of them out there who are too dogmatic with what they've been taught in universities and seminars to really help an individual (same goes for any sort of doctor to be fair).

Still, I think going in with an open mind is key. I think it is true that if you decide the person across from you is going to be a quack and have the radar set only to recognize their failings, it will most likely be a self fulfilling prophecy. I think there are psychologists/counselors who are very good at what they do and do have the ability to help people, I think it's just the cliche' advice everyone gives about being patient in finding the right one.

It is harder when you've been exposed to the quacks with the parlor tricks and the condescending "I'm here to dominate your mind" sort of approach though, for sure. Harder, but not impossible.