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  1. #21
    Senior Member SciVo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloriana View Post
    I did not see any significant change in my depression/anxiety until I was 23. I took it upon myself to start reading psychology books and reading every book I could my hands on about therapy techniques. I felt at home with cognitive therapy techniques immediately, and started applying them with my own schedules and lists. I worked my butt off, and after going through another handful of psychologists that could not help, I finally found one that I felt I could respect and trust.
    It's hard for me to picture anyone but an INFJ pulling that off. Congratulations! And I do appreciate the reminder that anti-depressants are merely statistically more effective than a placebo; many people are not helped by them and would be better off skipping straight to the therapy.
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  2. #22
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    I think psychologists aren't met for all people, you remind me of my sister, and she went through the same thing, eventually refused any psychiatric help because she thought they were all trying to manipulate her, she saw this and decided she wanted nothing to do with them. Obviously your mother thought you needed help, but you can't aknowledge it, because you don't see the problem, and that's fine, if u feel u can cope on your own, then you don't need them.
    I think the bigger battle is with your mother.

  3. #23
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    My biggest gripe about counselors is that they seem to "beat around the bush" when they do have some useful insight to offer you. They sit there and make you fumble around to get at what it is they are thinking, instead of just being direct.

    I'm impatient enough as it is, and I don't bruise easily, so I like it when people are direct.

    My wife and I went to a marriage counselor to improve our communication. I'm ESTP, she's INFJ, go figure there were some issues in perception, delivery, and unexpected outcomes when we did try to talk!

    The guy we went to see seemed to peg me upfront as the problem, but as we got past having a few sessions under our belt he started to see more of the big picture and lightened up on me. Once that happened I was more receptive to his input. After it was all said and done we did end up improving our communication with each other. In the process I learned some things about myself, some that I was aware of but in no certain terms, and others that were entirely new to my self realization.

    You need to have some element of trust between you and the counselor, and you need to have a mutual respect for each other. If you don't have that there will be no benefit to either party.

  4. #24
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    My biggest gripe about counselors is that they seem to "beat around the bush" when they do have some useful insight to offer you. They sit there and make you fumble around to get at what it is they are thinking, instead of just being direct.
    I noticed that when I had therapy recently, though it was something quite different. I've always been a slightly nervous flyer but I've been flying my whole life without problems, but then last year I had a bad flying experience and developed a much worse fear...so I had some cognitive behavioural therapy sessions this past summer. I think it helped (though I have to keep flying to see how it goes) and the psychologist was good, but occasionally I'd be like "I'm afraid that if I have another bad flight I'm going to totally freak out, be overwhelmed with fear, scream and cry, etc" and she'd be like "So, what would be so bad about that?" Not in a dismissive way, but I think more to make me reason about what, in the grand scheme would be so bad about that. But frankly, it was just kind of annoying!
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  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    My biggest gripe about counselors is that they seem to "beat around the bush" when they do have some useful insight to offer you. They sit there and make you fumble around to get at what it is they are thinking, instead of just being direct.
    I think every client is different.

    In general, it's a lot like women waiting for men to show interest before investing back in a relationship; otherwise you tend to catch "passive males."

    In therapy (which is ironically sort of a nurturing profession, or can easily be), there's an understanding that wisdom must be earned, and if you give someone a pearl before they are ready, they will either trampled it underfoot, swallow it and poop it out later, or think it's a pebble and throw it away.

    "Providing answers" might seem quicker but for many it will derail the overall growth process and/or not have an impact on long-term change.

    I think for you, you're much more into self-driven growth, so you're a therapist's "sweet dream." They can expect you to come with THEM with YOUR insights and they can steer you.

    Therapists of certain personalities might just be facilitators anyway by nature and can't switch to "dictate" mode. I'm also wondering if therapy style (family, addiction, CBT, schema, object relations, psychoanalysis, etc.) will impact how a therapist interacts; it probably does. I think religious counselors are also far more apt to take an authority-style approach (even if low-key), since that mirrors the teacher/student relationship typical in such religions rather than a relationship of mutual equals and no established authority pathway.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Mystic Tater, I'm curious why you are interested in becoming a counselor? Was there ever one that was helpful? Is it that you have an idea what you needed, didn't find it, and so have insight in how to provide it for someone else?

    I've been to a few counselors over the course of my life. I think the main issue is that they have a limited ability to help. I went during the times I was lonely and/or was facing difficult life choices. There were bits of help, but the job and dynamic is quite nebulous. In college my counselor thought I might be an anorexic, but her advice about body awareness was useful. There are usually pieces of information that are helpful, but everything isn't necessarily. I found the most important thing a counselor provided was the professionalism of patient confidentiality. The first "counselor" I went to was a church worker who ended up gossiping about me.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I've been to a few counselors over the course of my life. I think the main issue is that they have a limited ability to help.
    I agree, I think therapy is unique in "medicine/healing" because the cure is determined by the patient, not the "doctor." In medicine, the doctor can force treatment on the disagreeable patient and it still works - surgery, pills, medication, etc. In therapy, people only change if they want to. The psychiatrist or therapist is helpless, they can only partner with the client.

    I went during the times I was lonely and/or was facing difficult life choices. There were bits of help, but the job and dynamic is quite nebulous. In college my counselor thought I might be an anorexic, but her advice about body awareness was useful. There are usually pieces of information that are helpful, but everything isn't necessarily.
    I was so introspective that for much of my life I thought therapy was a waste. When I finally went, I found that as far as how I perceived therapy to be earlier it was a waste for me... I got little new direct info/insight. The benefits (since I saw a decent therapist) were actually more along the lines of what I needed, which was someone to affirm my sense of self and voice and give me a safe place to explore and then challenge myself. I just needed affirmation in order to learn how to "hear myself" again and then move forward.

    other people are different, though. it is very important to find the right counselor, both in terms of therapeutic approach AND therapist personality.

    I found the most important thing a counselor provided was the professionalism of patient confidentiality. The first "counselor" I went to was a church worker who ended up gossiping about me.
    Uggh. That is something to be careful of -- the "prayer circle" therapist at best. It shouldn't happen, but it does because of religious practice/beliefs. The externally affiliated counselors don't tend to have that opportunity or that excuse to talk to a bunch of laypeople about your problems.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I agree, I think therapy is unique in "medicine/healing" because the cure is determined by the patient, not the "doctor." In medicine, the doctor can force treatment on the disagreeable patient and it still works - surgery, pills, medication, etc. In therapy, people only change if they want to. The psychiatrist or therapist is helpless, they can only partner with the client.
    My best experience was with the last counselor I went to when I hit my depression and needed to restructure my life. She helped me feel empowered during a time that my situation could have made my family feel anxious if I had gone to them. The best thing was what she said to me was when I expressed concern about my ability to make it on my own after investing so much time and money into an unstable career. At the time I was in school trying to get a new career, but my depression made it impossible to function and I had to drop out. She pushed back and said I could find a way to survive. It might be hard for a while, but I was smart and could figure it out. It helped me feel confident enough to do it.

    If a therapist makes someone feel manipulated or dis-empowered like described in the OP, I can see the potential for a real problem. That might be an issue more with kids because their parents have involvement and can superimpose their own power battles onto the other authority figures. My last experience made me feel stronger.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #29
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think every client is different.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    In general, it's a lot like women waiting for men to show interest before investing back in a relationship; otherwise you tend to catch "passive males."
    Interesting! I haven't heard that before!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    In therapy (which is ironically sort of a nurturing profession, or can easily be), there's an understanding that wisdom must be earned, and if you give someone a pearl before they are ready, they will either trampled it underfoot, swallow it and poop it out later, or think it's a pebble and throw it away.
    Pooping out pebbles of wisdom...hmmmm......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    "Providing answers" might seem quicker but for many it will derail the overall growth process and/or not have an impact on long-term change.
    There seems to be some truth in this. I have been cynical and associated the phenomena of therapists "dragging things out" with them being paid by the hour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think for you, you're much more into self-driven growth, so you're a therapist's "sweet dream." They can expect you to come with THEM with YOUR insights and they can steer you.
    This guy thought I was his nightmare a couple of times, I guarantee you. I walked out in the second session. :yim_rolling_on_the_ I guess they are reticent to "steer" people as that derails their "neutral" standpoint. It just seems they could provide you with a few different ideas and let you decide whcih one you agree with, instead of letting a person fumble around. It's most likely in my head. I walk fast, talk fast, think fast, and drink fast. I have no patience, it's terrible. I'm not an ass, I just have the attention span of a gnat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Therapists of certain personalities might just be facilitators anyway by nature and can't switch to "dictate" mode. I'm also wondering if therapy style (family, addiction, CBT, schema, object relations, psychoanalysis, etc.) will impact how a therapist interacts; it probably does. I think religious counselors are also far more apt to take an authority-style approach (even if low-key), since that mirrors the teacher/student relationship typical in such religions rather than a relationship of mutual equals and no established authority pathway.
    I would NEVER go to a religious counselor! :horor:

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    The first "counselor" I went to was a church worker who ended up gossiping about me.
    I know how I'd fix that person... :steam:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I agree, I think therapy is unique in "medicine/healing" because the cure is determined by the patient, not the "doctor." In medicine, the doctor can force treatment on the disagreeable patient and it still works - surgery, pills, medication, etc. In therapy, people only change if they want to. The psychiatrist or therapist is helpless, they can only partner with the client.
    Really good point here, nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    other people are different, though. it is very important to find the right counselor, both in terms of therapeutic approach AND therapist personality.
    This is crucial, IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Uggh. That is something to be careful of -- the "prayer circle" therapist at best. It shouldn't happen, but it does because of religious practice/beliefs. The externally affiliated counselors don't tend to have that opportunity or that excuse to talk to a bunch of laypeople about your problems.
    Wouldn't a professional/licensed therapist violate professional confidentiality laws if they gossiped up about one of their clients?

  10. #30
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    just to focus on this one:

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Wouldn't a professional/licensed therapist violate professional confidentiality laws if they gossiped up about one of their clients?
    Yes, to talk about a specific individual to others is a big No-No.
    You can lose your license over that.

    The problem with purely religious counselors (who might not even be professional accredited, they might just be laypersons in the church with doctrinal knowledge) in this area is that (1) they aren't under that rule per se if they are not accredited, so there's no direct accountability and (2) spiritual and psychological healing is considered sort of the same, which leads to (3) people who come for "therapy" might still be approached from a religious perspective, and it's common for people to share prayer concerns and talk with others about someone's problems if it is deemed in the best spiritual interest of the person... at least some believers approach it that way. So there is a conflict of interest there, between the private parts of therapy and the communal aspects of religious practice.

    This doesn't happen everywhere, I will be clear; I have just seen and heard of it happening.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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