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  1. #61
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    True, but if Athenian truly is not depressed, does not have social anxiety, or any other condition, then Athenian is just going through the same crap we all go through. It's just life and we just have to do it despite all the horrible feelings we may experience along the way. In that case, you just have to suck it up and step out the door.

    The support I got was: go to school or get a job. Okay, you've got a job, now pay me some rent. At some point you kind of have to start taking responsibility for yourself.
    excuse me what does "have" mean? he "has" some negative feelings that don't immediately clean themselves. he doesn't understand himself or his situation very well, is confused, and needs serious help to deal with it bc he doesn't see any solution thru his own eyes. why be needlessly critical?

    if he were more logical and less focused on his feelings, he would be more like an intj and probably have an easier go of it. he would accept the situation from a Te perspective and do a better job focusing on what he can control. but he's not, like other infjs, logic is less naturally under his conscious control, so help him get better at using Fe and continuing to improve his Fe management so he can get out there, stop fixating on specific negative judgments, open up, and get better information for Ni to use.

    if he can clean up Fe a little bit, he'll sure as shit have a MUCH easier time using Ti productively. rather than destructively, justifying his worst fears and frustrations with false pseudo logic.

    also, your last paragraph is irrelevant. perhaps you are upset that he is skating by easier than you did according to your standards of justice. but fuck that- he's struggling and helping him would be a better thing to do than criticizing him in a way that maybe satisfies your own desires but doesn't help him at all. unless you think tough love is the only answer to emotional frustration and struggle????? not to mention, it's not like you're in a situation where he's personally a drain on you, all take and no give. we're offering nothing but a few words of encouragement that are totally voluntary.

  2. #62
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Well... I knew you all were going to say that, eventually.

    Now shut up and leave me alone. I'll figure it out myself, thank you very much. You're all worthless. Thanks for nothing.

  3. #63
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    excuse me what does "have" mean? he "has" some negative feelings that don't immediately clean themselves. he doesn't understand himself or his situation very well, is confused, and needs serious help to deal with it bc he doesn't see any solution thru his own eyes. why be needlessly critical?

    if he were more logical and less focused on his feelings, he would be more like an intj and probably have an easier go of it. he would accept the situation from a Te perspective and do a better job focusing on what he can control. but he's not, like other infjs, logic is less naturally under his conscious control, so help him get better at using Fe and continuing to improve his Fe management so he can get out there, stop fixating on specific negative judgments, open up, and get better information for Ni to use.

    if he can clean up Fe a little bit, he'll sure as shit have a MUCH easier time using Ti productively. rather than destructively, justifying his worst fears and frustrations with false pseudo logic.

    also, your last paragraph is irrelevant. perhaps you are upset that he is skating by easier than you did according to your standards of justice. but fuck that- he's struggling and helping him would be a better thing to do than criticizing him in a way that maybe satisfies your own desires but doesn't help him at all. unless you think tough love is the only answer to emotional frustration and struggle????? not to mention, it's not like you're in a situation where he's personally a drain on you, all take and no give. we're offering nothing but a few words of encouragement that are totally voluntary.
    "have" means that normal, healthy adults who do not take responsibility for providing for their own needs are taking advantage of the people who are doing so. It sounds like those supporting Athenian do not want to continue to do so, but are doing so under duress.

    Tough love, is of course, not the only answer to emotional frustration and struggle, but in the face of someone who is just too afraid to face normal life, it might be one of the better choices. To do otherwise seems kind of akin to enabling.

    If Athenian is just venting, that's okay. If Athenian really does want some constructive advice, there is a lot of that here. If he really does need serious help, an internet forum is probably not the best place to get it.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #64
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well... I knew you all were going to say that, eventually.

    Now shut up and leave me alone. I'll figure it out myself, thank you very much. You're all worthless. Thanks for nothing.
    good evening to you too. *tips hat*

  5. #65
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    ^ All of your responses imply that you are able to function well socially, Ath, but you aren't going out and doing it. Ponder on that for a moment without immediately answering with your list of responses.


    Either (a) you have a legitimate reason for not being able to successfully work your way through society until you find 'your people' or (b) you're lying to yourself, thinking you have a legitimate reason, when really you're just a coward.

    These are your options, Ath.

    People have thrown out legitimate reasons for you earlier throughout the thread (depression et. al.) but you haven't really convinced people with the reasons that you see to be "legitimate." If you are happy with your life continuing on in exactly the same manner until people die and things must change, then that's totally cool, but the very fact that you created this thread suggests you are not happy with the current state of affairs.

    So either (1) seek some legitimate explanations, or (2) accept that you are currently behaving in a cowardly way that's full of excuses, tell yourself this is unacceptable behaviour, and change your behaviour. If you don't do either of these nothing is going to change, Ath. This is nothing more than a factual observation of your circumstances.

    No one is buying the "I'm too N to adapt to the S society" bit--there are plenty of people on this board who are very "out there" on the N continuum and have found their (nonconventional, of course) place in the world. You have not.

    People are telling you this because your life could be very different if you went through the growing pains to grow into something that you want to be, Ath. None of your lists of reasons have passed the Bullshit DetectorTM for me, they don't appear to for several of the posters who have responded to your thread, so either (a) own up to your circumstances and do your best to work through them using whatever resources or medical labels that might enable you to do so, or (b) shrivel away from your dreams and accept that a lack of action results in a lack of growth and achievement in the ways that you want to grow in this world.
    This.

    You asked for help, they delivered. Now you're saying you can't take the truth?
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #66
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    This.

    You asked for help, they delivered. Now you're saying you can't take the truth?
    No, I just think it's useless to say so, because I think courage is stupid and cowardice is quite acceptable and natural for human beings.

    It's just not helpful for a person who doesn't value courage or care if their behavior is thought immature because it avoids responsibility. Personally... I think responsibility is for suckers. Only an idiot takes responsibility without a fight. It should be a LAST resort, not a first resort. How many good politicians do you see that take responsibility, and how badly does it usually affect them when they do? Taking responsibility is like admitting defeat.

  7. #67
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    [Denis Leary quote]


    God, that's hillarious. I was feeling awful, it's so much better now.

  8. #68
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    No, I just think it's useless to say so, because I think courage is stupid and cowardice is quite acceptable and natural for human beings.

    It's just not helpful for a person who doesn't value courage or care if their behavior is thought immature because it avoids responsibility. Personally... I think responsibility is for suckers. Only an idiot takes responsibility without a fight. It should be a LAST resort, not a first resort. How many good politicians do you see that take responsibility, and how badly does it usually affect them when they do? Taking responsibility is like admitting defeat.
    So you want people to sympathize with your desire to live a parasitic life and see you, instead of your host, as the victim?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #69
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    So you want people to sympathize with your desire to live a parasitic life and see you, instead of your host, as the victim?
    Well... honestly, yes.

    That's one of the reasons I don't like trying to make decisions based on what I want or appeals to my values, rather than an understanding of the options involved, and how they'll make other people feel.

    Because honestly, most of the things I "want" are so messed up that if I tried to make decisions based on them, I'd probably end up being killed by an angry mob.

    Here's a list of just a few of the things I "want":

    1. Kill everyone who has ever angered me.
    2. Take control of the government and turn the citizens of this country into my slaves.
    3. To be worshiped.

    You're getting the idea, right? This is one of the reasons I stopped listening to my Fi. Those are the kind of values I have in that part of me. Listening to it has never gotten me anywhere good... and plus, the best way to avoid it is to look at the implications my decisions have for other people. If I think about my own feelings... well, that's never good for me.

  10. #70
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    You'll never end up doing that if you never socialize.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

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