The Psychology of Group Bullying

[Mole]

So is the group bullying you here a group of women? I think I remember reading a comment from a mod (excuse me, it was Haight) in some other thread that all the mods hate you. Would you say that many men are now practiced in "female" aggression or is this a strict dichotomy?

Yes, you have an interesting insight.

Male and female is a dichotomy.

And a dichotomy is a distinction. And we see by making distinctions.

So the purpose of the dichotomy is simply to see.

And of course it is a mistake to take a dichotomy or a distinction, literally.

So we are not talking about literal males and females - except at first to enable us to see the metaphor to come -.

And so naturally your insight is correct. It is both literal male and females that practise group bullying.

To understand this better, it is a good idea to compare it to mathematics. For mathematics starts off literally with counting and numbers 1,2,3.... but very soon these literal numbers are abstracted into mathematical metaphors.

And it is the same here. We start of with the literal distinction between male and female. Then we abstract this distinction or dichotomy into a metaphor. And in this case the metaphor is group bullying.

 

[Mole]

The Slings and Arrows of Outrageous Fortune

I've seen people complain about you, which has seemed very un-nice thing to do, considering your personal, interesting and inoffensive posts. (Some of them may have been offensive, which may be OK too, but I haven't seen any).

You wrote beautifully about introverts blossoming if you cherish them, and if it was partly in joke or entirely honest, it was beautiful and thought-inspiring nonetheless.

You do write threads which aren't literal, but rather figurative, or playful with ideas, which seem to work very well for you to inspire discussion. I'm sad to realize that some might mistake that for "trolling" or something like that. In all honesty, that's being small-minded.

You get inordinate amount of complaints for no reason at all but being personal. I'd say it would have to stop - I wish it would. Have strength, Victor.

This is very true.

And it goes deeper. For it is a visceral hatred of the inner life.

The inner life can't be written literally and can only be written metaphorically. In exactly the same way that mathematics can't be written literally but only in mathematical metaphor. And how many have a visceral hatred of mathematics for that very reason?

So the hatred of Victor, so often expressed, sometimes openly and sometimes veiled, is the same hatred of the inner life and mathematics and metaphor itself.

But always remember that a computer can't make metaphors. Only persons can make metaphors.

That is why, at the very deepest level, persons are hated. And that is why persons are reified, i.e., turned into things. Reification is the complete hatred of a person.

The purpose of MBTI is to reify living persons. And so naturally anyone who opposes reification on this site will be subject to ad hominem attacks. And if this doesn't silence them, then they are subject to group bullying. And if they are still talking, they are told by the authority figure that they are 'venting' and their posts are moved to the Graveyard.

So I have decided not suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune but to take up arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing them end them.

 

[Mole]

The exception is when it turns physically violent.

Twice now on this site I have been threatened with physical violence.

When ad hominem attacks won't silence me, and group bullying won't silence me, and when suppression by authority won't work, they turn to threats of physical violence.

Under the Criminal Law threats of physical violence, particularly in writing, are an offence.

But the lust to reify overcomes even fear of the Criminal Law.

 

[Mole]

Literal language has a place, too.
It is suitable for the recipes and such things.

Perfect!

We all need to eat.

And we all need literal recipes.

But we don't live to eat, we eat to live.

And we live to make metaphor.

 

[Mole]

Shame on you, bullies.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

 

[Polaris]

The thing about bullying is that both parties are active agents. In order for a bully to exist, there has to be a person who puts up some form of resistance to that bully. This resistance can be as simple as the act of existing or as willful as the act of repeatedly challenging authority. Whatever the case, there are two things the victim can do to put an end to the bullying. The first thing a victim can do is to conquer his bullies, either by whipping them into submission or somehow aligning himself with them. The second thing a victim can do is cease to be a victim. This can be accomplished either by removing himself from the bullies' reach or by allowing them to destroy him in some way so that he can no longer put up resistance.

 

[Mole]

The thing about bullying is that both parties are active agents.

This is called blaming the victim.

And from the bully's point of view, the victim is to blame.

And just as rapists tell us, "She was asking for it", bullies tell us the victim is to blame.

And most sadly, some victims will blame themselves. Sometimes this is called the Stockholm syndrome.

And from the bullies point of view, the ideal victim is one who blames themselves.

And of course the aim of the bully is to induce self hatred in the victim.

And when the victim hates themselves, the bully has won.

And the boot heels and the high heels of the bullies will smash into our faces forever.

 

[poppy]

I second what Nunki said. Bullying is a form of interaction, and interaction requires multiple parties by its definition.

Victor, I think you're a fine addition to this community, but if you feel you are being bullied you do have the ability to choose to leave and your quality of life would not be substantially diminished. By choosing to stay, you are choosing to participate in this dynamic. It is not a matter of blame but a matter of fact.

Though I do think people should disagree with you in a mature way, rather than attacking and belittling you.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

This is called blaming the victim.

And from the bully's point of view, the victim is to blame.

And just as rapists tell us, "She was asking for it", bullies tell us the victim is to blame.

And most sadly, some victims will blame themselves. Sometimes this is called the Stockholm syndrome.

And from the bullies point of view, the ideal victim is one who blames themselves.

And of course the aim of the bully is to induce self hatred in the victim.

And when the victim hates themselves, the bully has won.

And the boot heels and the high heels of the bullies will smash into our faces forever.

Actually, I fully agree with you here. Speaking only in theoretical terms, though. I'm not really privy enough to the apparent history here to make any kind of judgement in your personal situation, though I can see how you might be easily construed as overly provocative. The way you post could be easily seen as evasive, which tends to make people suspicious. You have a unique perspective, and an ever more unique way of expressing yourself.

I'm not sure if yours would be a case of clear cut bullying, as much as it would be people misunderstanding you and feeling uncomfortable because you're different. I like different people, even when they exasperate me.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

I second what Nunki said. Bullying is a form of interaction, and interaction requires multiple parties by its definition.

Victor, I think you're a fine addition to this community, but if you feel you are being bullied you do have the ability to choose to leave and your quality of life would not be substantially diminished. By choosing to stay, you are choosing to participate in this dynamic. It is not a matter of blame but a matter of fact.

Though I do think people should disagree with you in a mature way, rather than attacking and belittling you.

Second this. If you're obviously an orange in an apple basket, there's some amount of negative energy to be expected. If you really want to go against the established flow so badly, some flak-taking is to be expected. I also agree that personal attacks are distasteful.

 

[Polaris]

My post isn't an instance of blaming the victim. In my post all I did was note that in order to exist as a victim, a victim has to present some sort of obstacle for the bully. In some cases the victim has a particularly active role in maintaining his condition; in others, the victim plays a more passive role. Whatever the case, the victim always does have some measure of responsibility, even if it's merely by choosing to prolong his life. I wouldn't call a victim guilty, though, unless he chooses to turn his bullies into victims themselves. In that case he makes a choice that is seldom positive for anyone involved.

As an aside, please do note that when I use the word "victim," I don't mean a victim of random violence. When I use that word I mean someone who has an ongoing history as someone's victim.

 

[Totenkindly]

Twice now on this site I have been threatened with physical violence...

Victor, could you please post links to those posts here so that everyone can see what you are referring to? That might be helpful, to give some context to what you're saying. Thanks.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

My post isn't an instance of blaming the victim. In my post all I did was note that in order to exist as a victim, a victim has to present some sort of obstacle for the bully. In some cases the victim has a particularly active role in maintaining his condition; in others, the victim plays a more passive role. Whatever the case, the victim always does have some measure of responsibility, even if it's merely by choosing to prolong his life. I wouldn't call a victim guilty, though, unless he chooses to turn his bullies into victims themselves. In that case he makes a choice that is seldom positive for anyone involved.

As an aside, please do note that when I use the word "victim," I don't mean a victim of random violence. When I use that word I mean someone who has an ongoing history as someone's victim.

Makes perfect sense. I think the word "bully" tends to be charged with memories of childhood and school for a lot of people (which is definitely the context of the book that Victor is referencing...good book, btw). In the case of children in school, they often don't have a way out-their parents say they must go to school, and so to school they go to live in the presence of the bully each day. As adults, we have more choices than that. We can remove ourselves. Good point.

 

[Jaguar]

To me its like those who practise astrology or MBTI have no intellectual integrity or self respect.

I fail to see how anyone could view themselves as a "victim,"
after claiming that anyone who practices MBTI has no intellectual integrity or self-respect.

Those aren't the words of any kind of victim, whatsoever.
In fact, they are the words of someone who is the opposite.

 

[Keps Mnemnosyne]

Unfortunately Nunki, a victim can't defeat group bullies by whipping them into submission. Removing oneself from bullies or allowing them to destroy you can be too great of a cost either to the psyche or to the physical body. As for aligning with the bullies, I am not sure if you meant trying to change the bullies opinion or to becoming allies or both. I did find that your suggestions were constructive, I am just trying to find out a more specific way to counter group bullying.

In retrospect, I have seen two cases of group bullying. I, in general, only remember the first case initially, because I did not do all that I could do and that the bullying resulted in a girl becoming highly depressed and suicidal. The second case I argued against the prevailing attitude every time it was mentioned, and it did cut down the amount of time disparaging comments were said in front of me, but it didn't help her, Eventually she put herself away from the bullies reach by removing herself from the social group. Nonetheless this was at a heavy cost for her as she lost a part time job for it and her friends. I do use the word friends loosely, because are they really friends if they turn against you for dumping a guy they liked. Ending of the tangent. I am interested to know if there is a specific way to help a victim out of the situation, or more interestingly for a victim to help themselves. Hopefully Nunki you will return and have more suggestions.

Now refreshing the page, I see more posts have been added, YAY!

I am more talking of social bullying off the internet than on where escape is often harder.
If this is mentioned in the book, I apologize if I am asking questions that are immediately answered in the book.

 

[Polaris]

I'm not even saying that Victor or anyone else should remove themselves. I've been in Victor's position a couple of times in my life, and I feel for him. All I'm saying is that bullying is a two-way street, and that if you're a willful victim of it with an easy way out, you have to take some of the responsibility. It can't be all their fault when you choose to pick a battle with them.

 

[Polaris]

@Keps

These things are so dependent on the particular circumstances that, unless I have specific situations, I have to get very broad when thinking about possible solutions. As far as trying to help a victim, the best thing you can do in most cases is to give them emotional support. I've been an outsider for most of my life, and the thing that means the most to me is empathy and support. As long as there is one person I care about and who cares about me, it's enough to carry me on.

 

[Keps Mnemnosyne]

It's okay, I was thinking that it really depended on the circumstances, but I was hoping someone would magically appear and tell me that I'm wrong and there is solution that works > 90% of the time for future cases. Still a chance that could happen though.

 

[Mole]

Group bullying is wrong.

We all have a duty to oppose group bullying.

And group bullying only succeeds if it is accepted by the group. And groups typically accept it by blaming the victim.

And the reality here is that this group accepts group bullying.

So I ask anyone with even half a heart and half a mind to join me in opposing group bullying in this group.

This will be difficult for those unable to achieve any independence from the group.

But it will become plain to them that in not opposing group bullying, they are dependent on the group.

And the price to be paid for such dependence is to assent to group bullying.

I must admit this is too high a price for me. What about you?

 

[Mole]

I fail to see how anyone could view themselves as a "victim,"
after claiming that anyone who practices MBTI has no intellectual integrity or self-respect.

It's true. In any University Psychology Department MBTI is considered non compos mentis and risible.

And in any University Psychology Department MBTI is considered to have the same intellectual integrity as astrology, that is, none.

And in any University Psychology Department those who practise astrology or MBTI are considered to lack self respect and compensate with self esteem.

Self respect is something you give yourself while self esteem is bestowed upon you by the group for assenting to group bullying and blaming the victim.