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  1. #41
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's true. In any University Psychology Department MBTI is considered non compos mentis and risible.

    And in any University Psychology Department MBTI is considered to have the same intellectual integrity as astrology, that is, none.

    And in any University Psychology Department those who practise astrology or MBTI are considered to lack self respect and compensate with self esteem.

    Self respect is something you give yourself while self esteem is bestowed upon you by the group for assenting to group bullying and blaming the victim.

    This is just nonsence, most universities teach this stuff to undergraduates on specific elective courses if not as part of the main curiculum.

  2. #42
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And the reality here is that this group accepts group bullying.
    I would be interested to see how many other members here actually feel like they have been "group-bullied"... not just a disagreement with other members, but consistently bullied to the level you are claiming.

    Maybe a poll of some sort would be helpful here...?

    So I ask anyone with even half a heart and half a mind to join me in opposing group bullying in this group.
    This is starting to sound somewhat like "opposing world hunger." Many people will say that they oppose world hunger, no one wants to see children starve and die, but just saying that you oppose world hunger -- regardless of how passionate and honest your intentions are -- will not save one child.

    Likewise, I honestly doubt that the majority of people here enjoy "group bullying." If there are any issues here, they are contextual and implementational ones; what context(s) are contributing to the bullying behavior and/or one's sense of being bullied, and how would this matter be resolved?

    Trying to resolve this without pinning down some specifics is like trying to shoot down a cloud of gnats with a bow and arrow.

    What would it mean in a practical sense for someone to join you in your campaign to oppose group bullying?

    What sort of specific behavior aside from mere assent/agreement would this entail on the part of an individual?

    I think yesterday I asked you for links to the two claimed threats of physical violence you mentioned here, so that people could reference them and get a better idea of what you're referring to. (If they were PM threats, you should forward them to mod staff.) This is the sort of concrete behavior that would enable you to communicate your case clearly and empower us to make changes.

    This will be difficult for those unable to achieve any independence from the group. But it will become plain to them that in not opposing group bullying, they are dependent on the group. And the price to be paid for such dependence is to assent to group bullying.
    Since there are many reasons someone might disagree with your comments beside being a proponent of "group bullying," I think this sort of gross categorization is unfair and manipulative to dissenters. It's called "labeling" and is the same sort of amorphous behavior you're complaining about yourself, although I guess you feel justified in doing it since you feel like you feel like the underdog here.

    So let's get back to the specifics of this situation, so we can resolve it: Who is this nebulous "group" that you keep referring to? Literally everyone I've seen post in this thread either thinks that bullying is wrong and/or sees forum atmosphere as a two-way street that both sides are responsible for. I don't anyone has promoted the idea of victimizing a weaker member, nor would they.

    I understand that if the "atmosphere" is the issue, then it might be hard to specify some of these complaints. It's just that continually addressing it in such a broad, abstracted sense seems to be ineffective in accomplishing your stated goal and even contributes to the cycle of tension and mislabeling on both ends that is driving the atmosphere you are finding repellent.

    Which, in turn, has created prolonged difficulties with staff trying to figure out how to isolate and remedy the issue.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #43
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    This is just nonsence, most universities teach this stuff to undergraduates on specific elective courses if not as part of the main curiculum.
    I have made enquiries starting with the five Universities in Canberra. And not one Psychology Department teaches MBTI, anymore than the the Astronomy Department teaches astrology.

    If you will give me the name of an accredited University with a Psychology Department that teaches MBTI, I will ring them tomorrow and confirm or disconfirm your claim.

  4. #44
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I have made enquiries starting with the five Universities in Canberra. And not one Psychology Department teaches MBTI, anymore than the the Astronomy Department teaches astrology.

    If you will give me the name of an accredited University with a Psychology Department that teaches MBTI, I will ring them tomorrow and confirm or disconfirm your claim.
    Ours does. Actually, they even cover it in the Grad program, too. But, h'yeah, no. I will not give you their number.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  5. #45
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I have made enquiries starting with the five Universities in Canberra. And not one Psychology Department teaches MBTI, anymore than the the Astronomy Department teaches astrology.

    If you will give me the name of an accredited University with a Psychology Department that teaches MBTI, I will ring them tomorrow and confirm or disconfirm your claim.
    You might want to try some nothern hemespher Uni which do teach it. There will be some equivelent taught down under but like many things - these things take time to travel.... I'm not in any way disparaging Sorthern Uni's - it's a question of fashion of topics in those countries

  6. #46
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I would be interested to see how many other members here actually feel like they have been "group-bullied"... not just a disagreement with other members, but consistently bullied to the level you are claiming.

    Maybe a poll of some sort would be helpful here...?
    .

    I think this is a difficult call. When a lot of other people's opinions are different than the posters may feel like they are being bulled personally rather than people dissagreeing with their opinion.

    There are some people who do make personal remarks rather than discuss topics - which I personally beleive is pretty poor form - but then some of them are young and possibly don't have the range of communication skills to be able to contribute in a more adult manner.

    It's the tipping point between personal attack and debating on views...

    If a person sees a debating of views as personal, then that really is their problem... but if it is a personal attack then that becomes bullying.... I'm pretty sure there are a fair few people who wont actualy recognise the difference.

    Sorry I'm rambling

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    Ours does. Actually, they even cover it in the Grad program, too. But, h'yeah, no. I will not give you their number.
    I'm very interested. There is no need to give me their number, just tell me the name of the University and the Department and I will ring them at 9 AM tomorrow morning.

    This matter can be very easily settled.

  8. #48
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of the process of ganging up on folks. One comment I have from the OP is that I don't see any difference between male or female bullying in online settings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I would be interested to see how many other members here actually feel like they have been "group-bullied"... not just a disagreement with other members, but consistently bullied to the level you are claiming.
    It hasn't happened to me here, but I thought I'd mention a couple of ways I react to what appears unfairly negative reactions which can help nip it in the bud. There are two things that seem to help. The first is to realize that people have many social fears and frustrations and often test one another to minimize their own hurts and disappointments. There is tendency to think the worst of the other person until trust is established. The first step to push back against it is to not mirror it, but to assume the best about the other person. If their comment seems passive-aggressive, assume it isn't and respond as though it is sincere because there is a chance it is, and there is a chance that assuming the best will help calm the other person down. (This also recognizes that as a person, I can think the worst for self-protective reasons as well, and so I nip my own negativity in the bud since that is the only thing I can control in the situation)

    If that fails after one or two exchanges (you know early on whether or not the person can or will respond positively), then I just leave the thread. This can feel uncomfortable to some because it can feel as though you are letting the other person "win" or get away with something, but I don't think that is actually the case. If the discussion is not fair or rational, then reason and fairness may not place it back on course. That response is outside my control. It could be someone in psychological distress, someone without needed medication or sleep. If there is a compelling reason they are behaving angry and unfair, then my fighting back isn't going to help or change anything. It will only waste energy, go in circles, and dig deeper treads in the mud. It is better to let them be and allow time to work it out.

    This approach has proven productive in my experience and eliminates negatives cycles that build in tension.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #49
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I disagree here. Sorry, no offence.
    Words scattered to the wind, you say. Not at all.

    I tell you why the journalists engage in a figurative language.
    It is because writing is their business. They are professionals in the game, you see.
    So is Victor.

    Literal language has a place, too.
    It is suitable for the recipes and such things.
    I am not sure what you are disagreeing with. I did not assert that literal language is the remedy. To the contrary, I stated that his use of figurative language makes the presentation of his ideas "more colorful (or round)." The words are scattered when the discussion of the interesting idea Victor raises goes nowhere. This has less to do with figurative language than with different rules of engagement. Most of these threads quickly degenerate into accusations of victimization/illogic. It's not simply that Victor uses figurative language, but the manner of engagement is wanting.

    As for the bullying, it's not always clear who's bullying whom, or if the bullying is not a welcome tool for the victim.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  10. #50
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post

    And in any University Psychology Department those who practise astrology or MBTI are considered to lack self respect and compensate with self esteem.

    Even if I didn't have a degree in Psychology, I'd tell you your claim is absolute nonsense.
    No Psych Department would be so negligent as to claim, or even suggest,
    that a person's self-respect or self-esteem, hinges upon whether they use astrology or MBTI.
    There is no logical, objective, connection.

    It is merely your subjective bias against people who use astrology or MBTI.
    It's one thing to attack astrology or MBTI but when you actually start attacking people,
    who use either one of them, it becomes a different ball game.

    Here's your quote again:
    To me its like those who practise astrology or MBTI have no intellectual integrity or self respect.

    The reason you made that post was, Tinkerbell had been talking about astrology all day.
    Just because she is interested in astrology doesn't mean she has no self-respect or self-esteem.

    Here's your venting post that started it all:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...logy-mbti.html

    Clearly, you begin that post attacking Tinkerbell and what she had been doing in the forum--talking about astrology.
    You thought you'd get away with that snotty post, if you simply left her name off.
    It's one thing to make comments about astrology, in general.
    It's something else when you make snide remarks about an astrologer.

    Frankly, I'd have respect for you if you had approached her directly.
    Instead, you took the cowardly way out and stabbed her in the back.

    You are no victim.
    What you are is a victimizer, who is actually playing the role of a victim.
    That way you receive the attention you seek, not bestowed upon you well enough in childhood.

    Now you can go blame your parents.
    You certainly won't take responsibility for it yourself.

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