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  1. #1
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Default Bad Economy: A self-fulfilling prophacy?

    I was thinking about this the other day. Every place I've turned for advice, I've been told that their field is bad and flooded right now because of the economy, and to avoid their field, whatever it is. Doesn't seem to matter which field I ask about they say "You should avoid X. Best of luck." College graduates say a degree didn't help them if they don't have a good job, and say that it did if they do (which seems rather dubious if you ask me). Likewise, people without degrees who are doing well say it doesn't matter, people without degrees doing poorly are envious of college graduates. If I'm to believe the people around me who've tried to advise me, an attempt to get any job at this point in my life is a waste of time, and I should spend 4+ years in school if I want to have any chance at all of getting a minimum-wage job. Needless to say, I guess I'm going to just do my own thing and hope it works... because if they're right, then I absolutely can't work with the hand I've been dealt and I'm totally screwed, because I don't have the determination to work ultra hard to find a job I don't like, and then work ultra hard to keep it. But if they're wrong, then I can. I have reason to believe that they might be, and it's my only hope anyway.

    It seems to me, though, that a lot of the behavior people engage in when they believe the economy is bad, is ironically a major contribution to it making it worse. Think about it... companies cut back instead of trying to grow, and the people who sell stuff to them get hurt by this. People save money instead of spending it, further hurting companies who sell stuff to them, in turn pinching THAT workforce. Do you see what I mean? The belief in a bad economy causes people and companies to tighten their grip on their money, and since the economy depends on the flow of money (much like the body depends on the flow of blood) rather than people sitting on it, this cripples it and reinforces people's perceptions.

    What do you think? Plausible that since people are acting like there's a bad economy, the economy is bad? Think about it... there aren't any less resources in the world than there were before. The entire situation is being created, spread, and mutually reinforced by people, right now. I don't believe that the economy is some impersonal force like the weather, it's an abstract model of how people are currently using money and responding to the use of it by others. The current state of our economy, despite the potential of the resources we're sitting on, is a testament to the power negative beliefs can have over people.

    Just an idea...

  2. #2
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Yes, you're perfectly right. You might think of it in the following way: the resource that is lacking is credit (as all the other resources, it's lacking because it's been used too heavily in the last years), which is essentially positive expectations towards the future (i.e. the expectations that if I give money to you, you'll be able to pay me back a little bit more). It's not a material resource, but it's essential for a working economy; trust and creativity aren't material resources either, but there can be a shortage of them and that can cause big problems.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #3
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    I agree, it definitely doesn't help. They say even those who are pretty much non affected by the economy are "acting" frugal(the wealthy are being stingy).

    I don't think it's entirely just our consciousness creating this reality though. Capitalism is reaching it's theoretical limits right now and is becoming unsustainable. Capitalism is all about self interest and profits and thus disconnects people from their sense of community.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Sacrator's Avatar
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    look at this video starting watching at 2:10
    YouTube - $550 Billion Dollar Bank Run - Collapse Of The Entire World Economy In 24 hours

    Then look at the unemployment rate since September 08
    Google - public data

    I think that's what really caused a lot of problems.

    I suggest if you want to get a good paying job that will be reliable get a government job.

  5. #5
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrator View Post
    look at this video starting watching at 2:10
    YouTube - $550 Billion Dollar Bank Run - Collapse Of The Entire World Economy In 24 hours

    Then look at the unemployment rate since September 08
    Google - public data

    I think that's what really caused a lot of problems.

    I suggest if you want to get a good paying job that will be reliable get a government job.
    The federal reserve is private owned, it is not a government organization.

    BTW from what I understand our economy is about to pick up to where it was around the 90's, but soon after there will be another collapse of the economy, during this crisis they will implement the new currency AMERO (like the EURO)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Sacrator's Avatar
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    Well still anything that largely hurts the banks hurts the entire US. Gah amero thats that currency the coin designer made for the fun of it creating the whole chaos on the internet that a north american union was going to be formed. I dont think it will be formed.

  7. #7
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrator View Post
    Well still anything that largely hurts the banks hurts the entire US. Gah amero thats that currency the coin designer made for the fun of it creating the whole chaos on the internet that a north american union was going to be formed. I dont think it will be formed.
    That's what they want us to think, this will keep us tied into the debt based system. In actuality the more we support these banks, citibank, chase, BOA, ect. the bigger the hole we dig ourselves into.

    Why should we support these banks that are getting handouts from the government and not being held responsible with what they do with the money, most have just bought up smaller banks with the money and paid off ridiculous high executive wages....

    Banks make their money off screwing people over you know.. interest rates and penalty fees are their income.

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  9. #9
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I was thinking about this the other day. Every place I've turned for advice, I've been told that their field is bad and flooded right now because of the economy, and to avoid their field, whatever it is. Doesn't seem to matter which field I ask about they say "You should avoid X. Best of luck." College graduates say a degree didn't help them if they don't have a good job, and say that it did if they do (which seems rather dubious if you ask me). Likewise, people without degrees who are doing well say it doesn't matter, people without degrees doing poorly are envious of college graduates. If I'm to believe the people around me who've tried to advise me, an attempt to get any job at this point in my life is a waste of time, and I should spend 4+ years in school if I want to have any chance at all of getting a minimum-wage job. Needless to say, I guess I'm going to just do my own thing and hope it works... because if they're right, then I absolutely can't work with the hand I've been dealt and I'm totally screwed, because I don't have the determination to work ultra hard to find a job I don't like, and then work ultra hard to keep it. But if they're wrong, then I can. I have reason to believe that they might be, and it's my only hope anyway.

    It seems to me, though, that a lot of the behavior people engage in when they believe the economy is bad, is ironically a major contribution to it making it worse. Think about it... companies cut back instead of trying to grow, and the people who sell stuff to them get hurt by this. People save money instead of spending it, further hurting companies who sell stuff to them, in turn pinching THAT workforce. Do you see what I mean? The belief in a bad economy causes people and companies to tighten their grip on their money, and since the economy depends on the flow of money (much like the body depends on the flow of blood) rather than people sitting on it, this cripples it and reinforces people's perceptions.

    What do you think? Plausible that since people are acting like there's a bad economy, the economy is bad? Think about it... there aren't any less resources in the world than there were before. The entire situation is being created, spread, and mutually reinforced by people, right now. I don't believe that the economy is some impersonal force like the weather, it's an abstract model of how people are currently using money and responding to the use of it by others. The current state of our economy, despite the potential of the resources we're sitting on, is a testament to the power negative beliefs can have over people.

    Just an idea...

    What you're saying makes sense in theory, but what do you suggest people should do instead to improve the economic situation? Just practice the same economic policies they did before the recession?

  10. #10
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    My companies experienced a huge growth during this recession.

    Having a ton of new material financed at bottom prices with awesome future exchange rates while at the same time upping the marges of the companies ability. Getting new customers through quality.

    I do feel sorry for people who got worse in the recession, but I'm almost inclined to say, I love recessions. Because that fear is easily abused to ones advantage.

    So on topic. A large part of the recession is a lot of hot air. Fear, superstition. Unfortunatly, the repurcussions are very real. It shouldn't have to be though.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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