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  1. #1
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Default Things I Do Not Understand Do Not Exist

    Would you sign that statement? Many people think that way.

    A woman of my acquaintance said to me (in kind):
    - Your facilities .. all this abstract nonsense .. it is of no use whatever. To anybody.

    I plead guilty.
    Things I do not understand do not exist to me. It is mainly this party business. I would not so much mind to be in a party. Other people would, though. They have this socializing sector. They talk around in little groupings with a stupid glass raised in their hand. By the way, what is the metaphor for the glass? Yes I know, you drink from it .. but while you have breakfast and you dutifully eat up your porridge, do you have the milk glass raised in your hand?

    Forget the glass.
    This socializing sector, I do not get it. I find parties extremely boring. But it is not that. It is the other people.
    This happened a long time ago. I was at school. We were forty children in the classroom. One child, I think her name was Ulla, invited everybody to her home. That is, all the forty children. Her father was a sea captain. He was dead. She had a mother, a friendly woman, and a kid brother. His name was Lasse.
    In my introduction I said I have never been to a party. I had forgotten this little incident. You see, I attended.
    I was the heart of the party. No, that was a joke.
    There were two very spacious rooms. They were like ball rooms. And then there was the vestibule, kind of medium size. Lasse and Ulla and the mother were all there in the vestibule with me. It seemed very important to them that I stay there. In the vestibule that is.
    The record player was there in the vestibule. They were very friendly. They did not want to be embarrassed, and they did not want me to be bored. So they told, or rather asked, me to be the one who plays the records. In those days the records did not last long. Only a couple of minutes. So I would be busy all the time, and everybody would be happy.

    Why?
    Because things I do not understand do not exist. I had been been in the way, because I should not have understood I am in the way. I do not understand it today. What I would have destroyed? And how?

    Is it because I do not compete? And a party is about competition? If it is not about competition, what it is about?

  2. #2
    Your time is gonna come. Oom's Avatar
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    That's a sad story Wildcat. I've been in the same situation. People will try to get you out of the way if they sense that you do not participate or compete in the social scene well enough.

    I do see parties and social gatherings with chit-chat as competitive environments, at least for the other people. I just like to talk to people, to everyone else they must 1 up each other. When they realize that you don't play the game they shove you to the side.:steam: Maybe they realized that even as you were a child, you were not going to grow up to be a good competitor.

    I try to understand that which I don't understand. But in the sense that the "something" doesn't interest me, it in fact does not exist.

  3. #3
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    ha! this happened to me when i was 5 or 6. i was thrust into something that did not meet my expectations. however i wasn't good at record players and such. i was forced to socialize. i knew nothing and nothing knew me. therefore it didn't exist. i only remember the experience b/c you brought it up. it's carried over to this day. i still believe if i can't understand it (it can't understand me) then it doesn't exist. i may be wrong in my assessment. oh also i don't find your story sad one bit. it happens to everyone not to downplay the significance of your story or anything but what makes something sad for me is that noone else experienced it and can't understand and then i feel noone ever did know me or it or the life. you know. maybe not but it's pretty vague anyhow.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Is it because I do not compete? And a party is about competition? If it is not about competition, what ist is about?
    relaxing and having a good time. sucks that you've never been exposed to friends where competition is non-existent...and care for others' well-being/reputation supersedes the need to magnify self

  5. #5
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oom View Post
    That's a sad story Wildcat. I've been in the same situation. People will try to get you out of the way if they sense that you do not participate or compete in the social scene well enough.

    I do see parties and social gatherings with chit-chat as competitive environments, at least for the other people. I just like to talk to people, to everyone else they must 1 up each other. When they realize that you don't play the game they shove you to the side.:steam: Maybe they realized that even as you were a child, you were not going to grow up to be a good competitor.

    I try to understand that which I don't understand. But in the sense that the "something" doesn't interest me, it in fact does not exist.
    So it is competition after all.
    Homo Sapiens is a competitive animal. I understand it now.
    Well said. And thanks.

    The higher you climb up the ladder, the more competition you face?
    Not at all.

    There is the P and the J kind of competition.
    The social and the vocational.
    To confuse the issue, the two kinds mix in the end. Not at the outset.
    One serves the other.

    Watch the games of children. You see the dichotomy is there already.
    Keirsey was in the right.

    A theory is not built in math. It is built in observation only.
    Differentiation calculus corresponds to the subject.
    The first hand is the second hand in the mirror?
    It is our hand.
    The number is irrespective of the sign.

  6. #6
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Many people are competitive... but do we HAVE to compete? In everything? Even in "social" nonsense? What is the point?

    I can acknowledge that what I do not understand may exist, but I cannot/does not feel there is any point in participating in things I do not see of any purpose.

    Me no like parties either. You can only stand at the sideline and observe for so long. Afterward, you see the same pattern repeat over and over. Becomes dull.

    Social and vocational competition... they don't have to mix, but people CHOOSE to mix them. Force you to interact. When you don't, you're thrown out. Into the rubbish bin.

    Theory built in observations... but the consequences aren't merely observation.

    Action reaction. It's like a "lie detector"... for impostors.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  7. #7
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    I sympathize with you guys.

    I'm an Extravert, I love to talk, and I'm very interested in people, but I almost always feel out of place at parties.

    They are very competitive and often extremely superficial, and that doesn't interest me in the least.

    I understand that Introverts have a highly subjective view of reality, but I wonder if more attention to objective possibilities would give them a little more peace while they're at a party.

    Like, if someone suggests that you be the DJ, they might be trying to get you involved, rather than trying to get you out of the way.

    I know that Extraverts often misunderstand and interact poorly with Introverts, but I think its a misunderstanding that Extraverts find Introverts bothersome and in the way.

    We often just don't know what Introverts want or need because they often don't express it in a way that's accessible to us--which would be directly, or at least, verbally.

    I hope it doesn't feel like I'm hijacking your thread, but I want to interact with you, and I want to understand you.


    What I'd like to know is, if someone invited you to a party, how would you like to be treated?

    Left alone? Encouraged to participate? Something in between?

    Since it probably depends on the situation, please share a specific incident that happened, and share your thoughts on what made it a good experience for you, or how it could have been better.

    Or create a hypothetical situation to illustrate how you would like to be treated at a party or social gathering.

    Please help me to understand.
    __________________


    I'M OUTTA HERE.

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    TAKE CARE.

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  8. #8
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    I sympathize with you guys.

    I'm an Extravert, I love to talk, and I'm very interested in people, but I almost always feel out of place at parties.

    They are very competitive and often extremely superficial, and that doesn't interest me in the least.

    I understand that Introverts have a highly subjective view of reality, but I wonder if more attention to objective possibilities would give them a little more peace while they're at a party.

    Like, if someone suggests that you be the DJ, they might be trying to get you involved, rather than trying to get you out of the way.

    I know that Extraverts often misunderstand and interact poorly with Introverts, but I think its a misunderstanding that Extraverts find Introverts bothersome and in the way.

    We often just don't know what Introverts want or need because they often don't express it in a way that's accessible to us--which would be directly, or at least, verbally.

    I hope it doesn't feel like I'm hijacking your thread, but I want to interact with you, and I want to understand you.


    What I'd like to know is, if someone invited you to a party, how would you like to be treated?

    Left alone? Encouraged to participate? Something in between?

    Since it probably depends on the situation, please share a specific incident that happened, and share your thoughts on what made it a good experience for you, or how it could have been better.

    Or create a hypothetical situation to illustrate how you would like to be treated at a party or social gathering.

    Please help me to understand.
    Was Marilyn Monroe an introvert?

    What they did to her when she was there at a party? They let her play the DJ?
    There was no DJ in those Hollywood parties.

    They acted as if she was not there. Why?
    The men did not speak to her because they were afraid of there wives, who were present.
    The wives did not speak to her because they were jealous.
    It was all about competition, you see.

    Marilyn Monroe did not compete. She did not have to. But there is another reason.
    She could not compete. There was no competitive bone in her body.

    She was ambitious. Is ambition competition?
    No.
    The ambitious has declared herself already the winner.
    Did she compete then? That is how she became the winner?
    Did she ever compete?
    No.
    But she did play ball!
    Yes. Very much so.

    Was I an introvert at the time I knew Ulla and Lasse?
    I was very much an extravert.

    I hope I helped you to understand.
    Does my introversion now affect my extraversion yesterday?

    We live now?
    Did Julius Caesar live now?

    If somebody had asked you five years ago, do you live now, what you would have said?
    Perhaps you would have said yes. Is five years ago .. now?

    Had somebody asked Julius Caesar, does he live now, what he would have said?
    Perhaps he would have said .. yes.
    Why Caesar does not live now then?

    Do you live now, Wonkavision? You say yes.
    Is your now more now than the now of Julius Caesar?

    Now I have answered to your question: How I would like to be treated, partywise.
    Now I have .. a contradiction of a kind. Or maybe not.
    In the 21st Century Wonkavision said he lived now. Why?
    He did live then.

    Maybe you now understand why they did not want me there at the party.

  9. #9
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Maybe you now understand why they did not want me there at the party.
    Brilliant as always wildcat.

    The raised glass, to health. A parody of transubstantiation.

    At the heart of their parties are dancing with their puny gods. Unbelievers to the left; believers to the right.

    The castle at Olavinlinna was build for right-handed men. But 10% are left-handed. Only by exclusion can inclusion occur.

    What's 10%?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(Roman_army)

    There is a reference to Huruslahden arpajaiset somewhere in the link.

  10. #10
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Just for the sake of arguement. If this was true, how would people go about learning to understand new things they previously did not understand?
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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