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  1. #1
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Default IQ and aging - personal, conflicting thoughts

    OMG, I wrote the message for an hour finding links, references etc. Hit send button, and bam - I was logged out and the message didn't get stored.

    I'll cut the long story short.

    THere's different ideas as to what is happening to IQ when people age. Perhaps younger generations are smarter, perhaps its adjusting to information age, perhaps they have better nutrition, or something. So in the end older people seem to get dumber as they age, by IQ. Or perhaps IQ-type mental ability does decline with age.

    WHen I enrolled in my school (18), I rather reliably tested at about 140 iq (15 deviance). Otherwise reliable, but the results were above the reliability ceiling.. Good statistics from the test, reliable background. Found it during a school course on the study of scholarly verifiable information sources. Now with the same kinds of tests, I score about 133, adjusted to same norm. These scores tend to be more in the reliable range.

    Have I spoiled my brains or what, I dont know, explanations are here and there. I feel bad about the process, if it's actual. I feel not so capable to rely on my smarts alone to enter the most highly demanding IQ-centered professions anymore, but I rather feel the need to rely on IQ, EQ (which I'll have to promote from disuse to good use) and good work ethics, the last of which I will have to develop from scratch. I've been a workaholic, which can be kinda used as a replacement for work ethics. Can it?

    If this is short story, you can guess what the long story was.

    -what is your IQ and your confidence with it?
    -how much does your view of "intelligence" align with contemporary IQ views on general intelligence factor?
    -are multiple intelligences a better representation of people's traits, or a hoax to cater to feelings of the dumb, or something in between?
    -have you wished to be of different IQ?
    -have you noticed a drop in IQ? If so, have you done a conscious effort to negate the effect? If not, what abilities or perceptions have helped to turn the situation around?
    -has type awareness brought different view on IQ? how so?
    -have you aimed for the best job available to your intelligence?
    Last edited by UnitOfPopulation; 10-08-2007 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Intelligence is one of my favourite topics. To answer your questions:

    - My IQ is 125+-5 points, I would say. Mostly I have taken a few online tests, but I also took an IQ test in the military. We didn’t get a number result, but I scored 9+/9, so I think I did pretty well … I think online tests are a pretty good measure, as long as you follow the time limits and take into consideration many tests.
    - I am quite sceptical of general intelligence factor. Sure I think different mental abilities correlate, but the connections are not absolute. Take me as an example. In IQ tests I am very good at mathematical and visual tasks, but I am mediocre at tasks related to language.
    - Sure multiple intelligence theory are a better representation of people’s traits than IQ, it’s a broader theory, so it covers more ground. The way I see it, IQ is basically a combined score of mathematical-logical, visual-spatial and linguistic intelligence. Or at least, I find it useful to think in those terms. Those three intelligences are however most important in academia, which make IQ useful in measuring academic talent.
    - Yes, I wish my IQ was higher, that I was more intelligent. 125 in IQ are too low to understand a great deal and to figure out a great deal. And if I were more intelligent, I would learn faster. But my situation could be worse.
    - I am 19, but sure, I think I was perhaps even better at IQ tasks when I was 15. I did expect to become smarter than I ended up.
    - Type awareness has certainly brought some new perspectives on my views on intelligence, but more about some correlations. Anyhow I feel I am constantly learning and expanding my vision. I would be interested in using mental tasks to study differences between types. Do certain types do better on certain kind of IQ tasks? Is it possible to link that to the cognitive processes? It would be an interesting way to try to empirically prove the existence of them.

    Anyhow, when it comes to IQ and age, I do think your IQ gets a bit lower with age. I think you think slower, which is why older people at some IQ tests get extra time.

    I do think the younger generation is smarter, the Flynn effect … I think they mostly explain it with better education. Personally I think it is interesting to see it in type perspective. Younger people are more often N, could differences in type actually explain the whole difference? But then of course you would have to ask yourself what causes these differences in personality. What causes what and so on.

  3. #3
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I'm about 109 and it's fine for me, I use to wish it was higher.

    I think their are different types of "intelligiance" some that a test can not measure.

    Multiple intelliagence can be helpful to people who are put in societies catagory of useless, society can be hurtful, especially when young. I know I'm contradicting myself with another thread. I'm just saying that if it makes someone feel better about themselves, what's the harm? I've changed alot in the past few years and I use to believe this, but I know longer believe this about myself. I still believe it about other people, also believe some people are going to be useless for the rest of their life, not because they can't change but because they're stubborn.

    not really

    still new to this, so ask me again in a few years.

    nope, I know I shouldn't do science and math as I do not have the brain for it, but I do do well with History and Philosophy and anything that uses Creative Thinking.

  4. #4
    Senior Member aeon's Avatar
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    One must keep in mind that IQ is for people under the age of 18 - otherwise the divisor does not work as it was intended.


    cheers,
    Ian

  5. #5
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeon View Post
    One must keep in mind that IQ is for people under the age of 18 - otherwise the divisor does not work as it was intended.


    cheers,
    Ian
    It was originally intended as such.

    IQ Testing
    The concept of IQ, or "Intelligence Quotient" was first introduced by French psychologist Alfred Binet in 1904. The "quotient" refers to Binet's definition of IQ as (Mental Age) divided by (Chronological Age) or M.A./C.A. This quotient is then multiplied by 100 to make it a whole number.
    Modern IQ tests use a "deviation IQ" rather than a ratio IQ. With this method, test takers are referenced to other people of their own age. The average IQ is still 100, but deviations from the average are assigned a number which corresponds to a percentile rank.

  6. #6
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I am 48 years of age. I consider myself reasonably intelligent. I have been continuing my education privately since I left high school. When I was young, I believe I scored on an IQ test in the 120 range. My overall average in high school was 86%.

    One of the big controversies of my lifetime has been the dumbing down of the SATs.

    I have seen Reading Primers from the early 1900s and 8th grade tests from that era, and I would say those kids learned a lot harder things than I was ever taught.
    They took Latin out of the school system the year before I got to it. Many times in my life have I seen how some basic Latin would have been useful to me, and perhaps a little Greek.

    Frankly, with the epidemic of kids that can't even spell or make change, I don't personally feel the world is getting smarter. As a matter of fact, I'm terrified one of those idiots may up being my surgeon some day.

    I smoked pot for a few years and cigarettes, too. I presume that caused a little "drain bamage".

    I took an IQ test online last year and I think I scored around 130, but I can't be positive.

    I looked up Flynn Effect, and in the wiki on it, they said that intelligence growth hit a peak in the 1990's.

    One of the reasons other types of intelligence measurements began to be developed besides the IQ tests is because people began to realize that high IQ isn't the only desirable trait. As a matter of fact, many or most of the people in the world with incredibly high IQs tended to be incredibly inept at other normal and useful functions in life; they were "lop-sided". The "buzz" was that they could split an atom but they couldn't balance a checkbook - I am just making something up for an example, it's not an actual quote. I have many times heard anecdotes about the "absent-minded professor" who can't get along in life.

    The consensus began to lean toward the ability to have a more well-rounded intelligence and the ability to have a more well-rounded life.

    Just one more thing though, in my opinion, it's impossible to be great at anything without being "lop-sided". When I hear of a genius who has just discovered a cure for a disease, or see an Olympic champion who sacrificed their entire lives for that one moment of glory, yeah, I pretty much assume their life is probably kind of lop-sided, but I'm also very thankful for that person who made the sacrifice to be extraordinary anyway.

  7. #7
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    One of the big controversies of my lifetime has been the dumbing down of the SATs.

    I have seen Reading Primers from the early 1900s and 8th grade tests from that era, and I would say those kids learned a lot harder things than I was ever taught.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Frankly, with the epidemic of kids that can't even spell or make change, I don't personally feel the world is getting smarter. As a matter of fact, I'm terrified one of those idiots may up being my surgeon some day.
    I've been thinking that computers may have taught us to respond to things fast. It's the kind of practice that kids back then couldn't have.

    Surely I dont consider it practically believable, that kids in the early 1900's would be "retarded" by common standards because of the Flynn effect. Under most theories, intelligence can't be learned, but different problems that prevent the person to actualize their intellegence can be removed. Perhaps it's easier to remove those barriers in today's hectic world, when they are related to fast information handling. After all, there's been an information explosion..


    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I smoked pot for a few years and cigarettes, too. I presume that caused a little "drain bamage".
    I think I've killed my brain cells with alcohol..

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    As a matter of fact, many or most of the people in the world with incredibly high IQs tended to be incredibly inept at other normal and useful functions in life;
    I recognize that, tho I haven't found out in the statistics that the high IQ would actually be a predictor of practical disability by anything really practical, like chance to be convicted of a felony or such. Of course it makes a bad impression not to be able to tie one's shoelaces at the age of 40

    Exceptional IQ's (4+ std deviations above average) do get a downturn in total coping abilities, but they are so small a bunch that they only have exemplary value, but do not affect the statistical numbers that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post

    The consensus began to lean toward the ability to have a more well-rounded intelligence and the ability to have a more well-rounded life.

    Just one more thing though, in my opinion, it's impossible to be great at anything without being "lop-sided". When I hear of a genius who has just discovered a cure for a disease, or see an Olympic champion who sacrificed their entire lives for that one moment of glory, yeah, I pretty much assume their life is probably kind of lop-sided, but I'm also very thankful for that person who made the sacrifice to be extraordinary anyway.
    I agree to great extent.

    I found the idea of other intelligences misdirected for long time; I felt many statistics were on my side, and counterexamples were already included in the statistics, so they couldn't be used to invalidate the advantages of IQ.

    I am sad that I didn't read Daniel Goleman's The Emotionally Intelligent Workplace any earlier. It was no wishy-washy feel-good fluffy praise, but it presented a solid case to why Emotional Quotent mattered. The key was in that IQ has been practically an entrance requirement to many fields; so in such fields, most people have had high enough iq, but different EQ.

    So in the end, IQ has worked to determine whether a person can work in some IQ-heavy fields, whereas EQ has been as much as 4 times as strong a predictor of success. The IQ-EQ-importance disparity surpisingly gets higher when you go up the chain of command, or to more demanding tasks, so that EQ predicts success even more.

    Needless to say, I'm embracing the EQ idea.

  8. #8
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    By enrollment standards, I got a 135.

    I'm 21; I don't feel any dumber than before, but obviously the material I am being taught now is more difficult than what it used to be in high school. However, I went to a very selective elementary and middle school, and thus I lived out of the assets gained there for my adolescence years (that were used for learning social skills and sports).

    I think that IQ tends to lower from 20 to 30 because of added stress on the brain. I feel that it works much faster - as fast as it used to be in my early teens - when I play a lot of sports and I study just enough. The principle that , in my opinion, is behind this happening is the same behind overtraining in sports matter. We do not give our brain enough time to compensate for the stress it's placed on it.

    In any case, now to reply to your questions:
    - I'm fine with it. I was able to enjoy the best years of my life without having to do any homework, whilst still getting good grades.
    - I agree completely. With enough training, the people I've known that had the highest IQ were also the ones that performed better in sporting activities, could climb faster when biking, danced better, etc
    - Multiple intelligences are an useless trait, and the discovery of g only strengthens this proposition. If each trait is correlated with a common factor, then only one type of intelligence is sufficient to approximately determine the level of all the others.
    - Not relly.
    - I notice drops when I am under excessive mental stress. When I include enough sporting activity in my daily routine, my mental abilities return to the level they were during my childhood. Santtu, you should remember to correct for selective bias, meaning that if, progressing with your life, you start hanging around people of higher intelligence than before, you will perceive the shortened differential as a regression of your ability, whereas the source you perception is only the rise in other's IQ.
    - No.
    - I'm still in college, but I'm aiming to. The job I have now probably falls in the 110-115 range, but I'm in a coordinating position.

    Alchool definitely has a bad effect on brain cells, I agree. I have stopped completely drinking more than two glasses of wine or a beer in a given night.

    In regards to lop-sidedness: for a period of my life, I was able to sustain being very good at at least 3 things - I stopped because I wasn't enjoying it any more. There are testified cases of star atlethes that were easily able to complete med school and/or get PhDs while competing.

  9. #9
    Senior Member snegledmaca's Avatar
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    -Never tested officially, but online it's 105 with a deviance of 5 points.
    -I haven't really studied the topic but I find the general intelligence factor to be satisfying in determining a person's intelligence. However I do think it is possible for intelligence to be specialized in one area. But I think this should be recognized as a special case of general intelligence.
    - I view multiple intelligences are expressions of the same general intelligence with specialized areas.
    -Sometimes.
    - Yes. I was smarter relative to my pears when I was younger. I did not negate my "decrease" in intelligence but compensated through working harder. And presenting myself smarter then I really am.
    - No. Well, perhaps that INxx-s tend to have higher intelligences then the general population (But then again they are rarer).
    - I don't really know how to be anything other then who I am. My goals and aims reflect that. These kinds if things don't really influence my behavior.

  10. #10
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    One of the reasons other types of intelligence measurements began to be developed besides the IQ tests is because people began to realize that high IQ isn't the only desirable trait. As a matter of fact, many or most of the people in the world with incredibly high IQs tended to be incredibly inept at other normal and useful functions in life; they were "lop-sided". The "buzz" was that they could split an atom but they couldn't balance a checkbook - I am just making something up for an example, it's not an actual quote. I have many times heard anecdotes about the "absent-minded professor" who can't get along in life.
    The most intelligent person I've ever known was an utter mess. (Mind you, I still covet his IQ...)
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

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