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  1. #71
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    They acknowledge that it can be a reaction to various levels of pain and based on a variety of motives. It isn't one thing that best matches an interpretation based on personal fears. If it isn't always a big deal then always interpreting it as a big deal does not match reality. It is reasonable to learn new interpretations that fit with new situations.

    I was also trying to think how to add to my post that a person's past experiences can also shape their first reactions to crying. If they are conditioned by someone else to see it as typically manipulation, or as an intense crisis, then that is based on experience and not their own motives. Misinterpretations are there for a reason, and it makes sense to figure out why the misinterpretation is occurring.
    I agree to a point, but at the same time you don't seem to be leaving a lot of room for the possibility that the crying is being used as a manipulative tool.

  2. #72
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    This is the result of bad parenting - ie, women who pulled this as children to get what they wanted. Women who do this probably do other manipulative things, and men should be onto them early.
    Absolutely, they are spoiled brats by and large. Unfortunately, the men in their lives are rather undone by the tactic so it continues to work. I have no idea why but I suppose the crying causes their partners to panic in some way and the objective is just to stop the crying at all costs.

    Definitely at a cost to their relationships imo, but these women don't seem to care about that.

  3. #73
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I agree to a point, but at the same time you don't seem to be leaving a lot of room for the possibility that the crying is being used as a manipulative tool.
    I guess that comes down to what is being communicated alongside the tears. What else is the person requesting and would they be apt to obtain it with reason and not tears? If there is an implicit request, is it within the realm of reason?

    What you are referring to might be a mild version of emotional blackmail. One of the prime examples of that I heard from a lady who was a cancer survivor and always sweet, but she recounted a story to her friends by email that was hard to forget. She really wanted a gold harp and ordered one while her husband was at work. He came home, was upset, and said, "that's too expensive". Her response, "I had cancer". In principle this shows that her request would not have been won with reason and so the appeal to pity was a tactic.
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  4. #74
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    I've never seen crying as a release, although I think that would be nice at times. It would be very efficient to get everything out that way and be done with it. Is that how it works? Anyway there are movies that make me cry and real sadness sometimes makes me cry but the normal crying places - funerals, hospitals, birth related events - no. My take on that is that someone has to hold it together and usually that's been myself so I learned early on that the less emotional you get in emotional situations the better. You can fall apart later on if need be but for me, that's about 50% of the time.

    Crying as manipulation? Oh I know a lot of women who do this. Men manipulating with tears? I've honestly never seen this before. I think my husband has cried twice in all the time I have known him. Once was when his dad died and once was a really scary hospital situation with one of our kids but, like me, he never cried until it was well over with. I felt helpless as this is a man who never cries. It almost made me feel physical pain. Neither time was manipulation of course.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #75
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I guess that comes down to what is being communicated alongside the tears. What else is the person requesting and would they be apt to obtain it with reason and not tears? If there is an implicit request, is it within the realm of reason?

    What you are referring to might be a mild version of emotional blackmail. One of the prime examples of that I heard from a lady who was a cancer survivor and always sweet, but she recounted a story to her friends by email that was hard to forget. She really wanted a gold harp and ordered one while her husband was at work. He came home, was upset, and said, "that's too expensive". Her response, "I had cancer". In principle this shows that her request would not have been won with reason and so the appeal to pity was a tactic.
    I keep reading on this thread about the supposed projection of people who see the possibility of emotional manipulation in tears. But I think there's far more projection here from people who cry themselves and are indignant at the thought their tears could be seen as manipulative. The example you give is extreme. What about the example of women who cry to get out of speeding tickets? I've met a number of those. They are happy to admit it. And Sanveane has also given examples. Runvardh has referred (albeit vaguely) to having had experience with manipulative-criers. As has Alcea Rosea. And EJCC. And Berberella.

  6. #76
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I keep reading on this thread about the supposed projection of people who see the possibility of emotional manipulation in tears. But I think there's far more projection here from people who cry themselves and are indignant at the thought their tears could be seen as manipulative. The example you give is extreme. What about the example of women who cry to get out of speeding tickets? I've met a number of those. They are happy to admit it. And Sanveane has also given examples. Runvardh has referred (albeit vaguely) to having had experience with manipulative-criers. As has Alcea Rosea. And EJCC. And Berberella.
    Women who manipulate-cry are primarily manipulators and will manipulate in all sorts of circumstances. So if you know a woman who has never made you suspicious that she's manipulative in general, then it's likely she's just overwhelmed and needs to cry, or she at least has earned the benefit of you withholding judgment. If she's been manipulative before in other non-crying circumstances, she's earned the right to have you be suspicious of her feelings.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
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  7. #77
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    What Usehername said!

    Do you think there's also a T vs F divide on this? As in, Ts might themselves feel the need to cry less frequently, so view with suspicion those who do? They also might feel more justified in determining what is or isn't "legitimate" circumstances in which to cry. They also may feel less comfortable with the vulnerable feelings it evokes within themselves and so wish it to stop immediately?

    Just a theory. I'm not sure if it sticks or not.

    You are quite right JJJ to feel resentment towards women who cry about speeding tickets etc and then boast about it later. However, I think it is a given that we all consider that sort of behaviour unacceptable.

    There are some women that are quite dramatic and cry much more than average. This has more to do with maturity level, but the feelings are still heartfelt. It's just that they have not learned when it is or isn't appropriate to cry and they allow themselves to give in to tears more easily when those feelings crop up, where others might make more attempts to hold them back. (I'm not referring to people like Ivy or Jennifer who have stated they cry for a variety of reasons and who are measured and reasonable from what I've observed).

  8. #78
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Women who manipulate-cry are primarily manipulators and will manipulate in all sorts of circumstances. So if you know a woman who has never made you suspicious that she's manipulative in general, then it's likely she's just overwhelmed and needs to cry, or she at least has earned the benefit of you withholding judgment. If she's been manipulative before in other non-crying circumstances, she's earned the right to have you be suspicious of her feelings.
    Exactly. Just, exactly. I have nothing to add to this. Useless post over!
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  9. #79
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    What Usehername said!

    Do you think there's also a T vs F divide on this? As in, Ts might themselves feel the need to cry less frequently, so view with suspicion those who do? They also might feel more justified in determining what is or isn't "legitimate" circumstances in which to cry. They also may feel less comfortable with the vulnerable feelings it evokes within themselves and so wish it to stop immediately?

    Just a theory. I'm not sure if it sticks or not.

    You are quite right JJJ to feel resentment towards women who cry about speeding tickets etc and then boast about it later. However, I think it is a given that we all consider that sort of behaviour unacceptable.

    There are some women that are quite dramatic and cry much more than average. This has more to do with maturity level, but the feelings are still heartfelt. It's just that they have not learned when it is or isn't appropriate to cry and they allow themselves to give in to tears more easily when those feelings crop up, where others might make more attempts to hold them back. (I'm not referring to people like Ivy or Jennifer who have stated they cry for a variety of reasons and who are measured and reasonable from what I've observed).
    Hmm, I don't think it's necessarily a T/F thing. I most definitely don't like crying in front of people and I view women (and men) who use tears to manipulate with disdain. I guess I feel I can tell the difference easily though so I'm not automatically suspicious of tears. I've had a few boyfriends who have tried that with me and it takes me all my time to be patient with them on those occasions.

    I have read of other INFJs who really don't like to cry either. I am extremely private in that sense, so much so that I can't ever really cry the way I want to if I'm upset if anyone is around. I don't cry often either.

  10. #80
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think all of the INFJs in this thread so far have expressed that they truly dislike crying in front of others. I know I do. I also view manipulators with disdain.

    However, tears are not always manipulative and it is important to consider the other possibilities of why people cry instead of immediately jumping to that conclusion.

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