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  1. #61
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    I know quite a few women who resort to fake crying to avoid consequences or to get their own way. (I stopped counting at 6.) I've seen them do it so many times and then when they get their way the sun comes out again. Bleh.

    It's usually directed at their partners/families/friends but one of these women had some trouble getting some permissions for her business and told her business partner not to worry as she would go to the local authority and cry to make things happen.
    My god. What is wrong with these people? I guess in my mind overwhelming emotions-sad, happy, confused or whatever it is that precipitates the crying- are a sign to step away and give someone else space or support. It's kind of the last sign. So to use that to your advantage seems very-well, manipulative and sort of evil. I did work with one lady who did this. An esfj. I have her job now, if thats anything for how useful it was.

    I guess I very rarely ever cry. Once a year until very recently. Maybe three times in the last last six months.

  2. #62
    violaine
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    Yeah, they disgust me. It's unscrupulous and manipulative. Unfortunately it works on their intimates. One of them had her business fines halved too because she cried. I have let a few of them have it before when they turned on the tears but there is one I just have to walk away from. She would go to Defcon 1 level of dramatics if I ever called her out.

  3. #63
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Well, sure, but I think that yelling/shouting is kind of on a par with crying.
    I do much better with crying than yelling, personally. Yelling is veering into "aggression" territory and makes my skin stand on end. Crying is frustration not necessarily directed at anyone in particular.

    In any case, it seems pretty typical for men to yell if they're frustrated and for women to cry. (Heck, I cry when I'm happy sometimes now... and hard... and then I usually start laughing while I'm still crying because I know how absurd it looks to outsiders. It just happens.) As long as you know the person well enough to trust them, then it becomes about learning to read the signal for what it is rather than trying to squelch it. It's just giving a signal of one's internal state, it's not necessarily a criticism of the other person in the conversation.

    Anyway, women who use tears to consciously manipulate are as bad as men who run around yelling and smashing things to consciously manipulate -- it's the same motivation directing the very different behaviors.

    ... I guess I'm not saying much different than what Ivy and Jeno and others have been saying.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  4. #64
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Hey Eileen - where'd the rest of your old thread go to?
    I felt the need to delete it. I may undelete it, but right now it causes more anxiety than it soothes.
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  5. #65
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Actually, I hadn't thought about it until this discussion started. I naturally cry in situations but have felt the need to stifle my crying because people can think you are trying to manipulate them if you are crying.

    Aren't I being manipulated to change my feelings because someone else might feel guilty that I'm crying?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Actually, I hadn't thought about it until this discussion started. I naturally cry in situations but have felt the need to stifle my crying because people can think you are trying to manipulate them if you are crying.

    Aren't I being manipulated to change my feelings because someone else might feel guilty that I'm crying?
    heh.

    what a tangled web.
    It's too bad we all just can't be honest about our responses [in a mature way] and let everyone take responsibility for their own reactions.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #67
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    I know quite a few women who resort to fake crying to avoid consequences or to get their own way. (I stopped counting at 6.) I've seen them do it so many times and then when they get their way the sun comes out again. Bleh.

    It's usually directed at their partners/families/friends but one of these women had some trouble getting some permissions for her business and told her business partner not to worry as she would go to the local authority and cry to make things happen.
    This is the result of bad parenting - ie, women who pulled this as children to get what they wanted. Women who do this probably do other manipulative things, and men should be onto them early.

    I'm with Ivy on this - I cry for joy and/or relief, as well as sadness, hurt and frustration. I remember one particular incident when my son had been bullied, so I picked him up after school for a couple of weeks. A good (male) friend teased me about it and tears sprang to my eyes - I couldn't help it and I wasn't manipulating. His words just plain hurt.

    Some men who can't stand crying have been shamed about it themselves. My boss of many years told me when I started working for him that he couldn't stand to see women cry. I'm not a big crier, but I made sure it didn't happen in front of him. When I heard they found Polly Klaas' body, I went into the back room.
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  8. #68
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    People who interpret crying as manipulation are more likely to be the ones who would use it that way. I have known people of both genders who use it that way, and then assume that is how everyone uses it. This is not always true obviously because people are complex and have various experiences, but I do tend to take a step back when someone uses that interpretation falsely because the best measure of motives comes from inside ourselves. People tell you a lot about themselves by what they project into others.

    The fact of the matter is that people cry for various reasons and in response to various levels of hurt and pain. The rational person will respond to that information for what it is and not insist on interpreting it based on personal fears about what it means.
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  9. #69
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    The fact of the matter is that people cry for various reasons and in response to various levels of hurt and pain. The rational person will respond to that information for what it is and not insist on interpreting it based on personal fears about what it means.
    So "the rational person" assumes crying is always genuine? Is that what you're saying here?

  10. #70
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    So "the rational person" assumes crying is always genuine? Is that what you're saying here?
    They acknowledge that it can be a reaction to various levels of pain and based on a variety of motives. It isn't one thing that best matches an interpretation based on personal fears. If it isn't always a big deal then always interpreting it as a big deal does not match reality. It is reasonable to learn new interpretations that fit with new situations.

    I was also trying to think how to add to my post that a person's past experiences can also shape their first reactions to crying. If they are conditioned by someone else to see it as typically manipulation, or as an intense crisis, then that is based on experience and not their own motives. Misinterpretations are there for a reason, and it makes sense to figure out why the misinterpretation is occurring. Edit: If other people actively alter their behaviors to reinforce the misinterpretation, then that is heading down a path to more confusion. If I stop crying or run away anytime I am sad because someone I'm with interprets it as crisis, then I am reinforcing that interpretation and making it more true in the current situation.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

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