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  1. #51
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I am a female who believes that a lot of crying is manipulative and I feel that way because I don't cry often. So when I do cry, it's for something that I deem "real". It's hard to believe, in my mind, that whatever small thing we are talking about should result in such a breakdown. I believe in my head that it's not always the issue that sets people off, but the idea that I don't care about what they think or feel. So they try to appeal to my emotions rather than my logic by working themselves up. It always backfires. It may not be true in all cases, but it could be true in some. Don't you think?

  2. #52
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I'm sure it could be true in some cases. I don't understand "going there" immediately. Why assume that's what's going on?

    I don't assume that people who don't cry much are snakes with gears and servos where a heart should be. And I think most non-cryers would agree that that would be an unfair assumption for someone else to make.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  3. #53
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I'm sure it could be true in some cases. I don't understand "going there" immediately. Why assume that's what's going on?

    I don't assume that people who don't cry much are snakes with gears and servos where a heart should be. And I think most non-cryers would agree that that would be an unfair assumption for someone else to make.

    I don't go there immediately. If I am having a conversation where we can't see eye to eye about something, you know - one of those long drawn out mood killers - and the end results in tears, I am apt to believe the crying is from the frustration rather than the argument. So it makes me wonder what you really are so sad about - the fact that I don't agree with you?

  4. #54
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I don't go there immediately. If I am having a conversation where we can't see eye to eye about something, you know - one of those long drawn out mood killers - and the end results in tears, I am apt to believe the crying is from the frustration rather than the argument. So it makes me wonder what you really are so sad about - the fact that I don't agree with you?
    For me (and I assume other frequent cryers) crying isn't always a sign of sadness. It's kind of an all-purpose emotional outlet. I cry when I'm sad, yes, but also when I'm angry, grateful, joyful, or just overwhelmed.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  5. #55
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    For me (and I assume other frequent cryers) crying isn't always a sign of sadness. It's kind of an all-purpose emotional outlet. I cry when I'm sad, yes, but also when I'm angry, grateful, joyful, or just overwhelmed.
    And that's where the difference lies. I cry when I am legitimately sad about something, so it's news to me that other people don't. I assume it's this way for most of the men who feel manipulated. I mean, I laugh when happy not angry. I eat when hungry, not bored... same principle.

  6. #56
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    And that's where the difference lies. I cry when I am legitimately sad about something, so it's news to me that other people don't. I assume it's this way for most of the men who feel manipulated. I mean, I laugh when happy not angry. I eat when hungry, not bored... same principle.
    Likewise, the concept of "legitimately sad" is a new one to me. I always thought one was either sad or not, and the idea of an outside metric for measuring sadness and deeming it legitimate or not is foreign to me.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #57
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Likewise, the concept of "legitimately sad" is a new one to me. I always thought one was either sad or not, and the idea of an outside metric for measuring sadness and deeming it legitimate or not is foreign to me.
    I used legitimately because I lacked a better word. Crying when you are happy seems foreign to me. Crying is a release of emotions, apparently, good or bad? Which is why I don't take it seriously since I am not always sure what emotion you are trying to release.

  8. #58
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I was surprised to find out how many men feel that tears are used as a form of manipulation. While there may be some women that do this, I think the vast majority of them do not. Like some of the above posts have said, I often wish that when I am trying to discuss something important that is also very difficult, I would do anything to keep from crying. Tears never come unless it's out of extreme frustration after superhuman efforts to make something work and exhausting every possible option to no avail (this could happen in a work setting, but not in front of anyone if I can help it) or when I am talking to someone and the emotion is extremely deep and tear slip out against my will. There may be a sum total of three people in my life that I would ever consider crying in front of and those occasions would be very rare.

    If anything, I wish I were much less transparent in those situations. I understand that tears invoke inner bad guy accusations for the other person and also put me at the disadvantage of looking irrational and overly emotional. It certainly isn't to my advantage.
    Same. Crying is something I really try not to do in front of people. When you cry in front of someone, you are opening up to them and it leaves you vulnerable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    (Which is not to say that women don't manipulate through tears, but that I expected those same women who manipulated through tears to manipulate through a variety of opportunities.)
    Exactly. I know a few women who cry to manipulate (although they are genuinely crying, just also using it to their advantage), but they are manipulative in general. So no surprise there. They are all of the same/similar type too, but I don't want to point the finger, so I'll leave that out.

  9. #59
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I used legitimately because I lacked a better word. Crying when you are happy seems foreign to me. Crying is a release of emotions, apparently, good or bad? Which is why I don't take it seriously since I am not always sure what emotion you are trying to release.
    Yeah, for some of us, I think it is just a "my cup runneth over" thing. Doesn't much matter what the cup is filled with. I cried when both my babies were born (in fact I usually cry when I see birth happen on one of those shows) which were, hands down, the two happiest moments in my entire life. Not just because my babies were here but also because the work of getting them here was over. So that was a cry of happiness and profound relief.

    I would assume all of the usual signals of whatever emotion is being felt would still be there. Like, if someone is laughing and crying they're probably not crying out of sadness or anger.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #60
    violaine
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    I know quite a few women who resort to fake crying to avoid consequences or to get their own way. (I stopped counting at 6.) I've seen them do it so many times and then when they get their way the sun comes out again. Bleh.

    It's usually directed at their partners/families/friends but one of these women had some trouble getting some permissions for her business and told her business partner not to worry as she would go to the local authority and cry to make things happen.

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