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  1. #31
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Moved these posts from the boobs thread to their own thread!
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    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #32
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Can most men tell the difference between crocodile tears and the involuntary kind in your opinion, JJJ? Is it the unsureness of whether they are being manipulated that bothers them most, or the helpless/accused feelings that it triggers that create their reaction?

  3. #33
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Hey Eileen - where'd the rest of your old thread go to?

  4. #34
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I just find a prolonged conversation about women using tears to manipulate people a little annoying, in general.
    Agreed. I understand that the people who pointed that out DON'T think that all/most women are like this. But nonetheless! I'd say that the VAST minority of women are like this. I know a few women (who, by the way, are SPs - no offense to COOL SPs) who cry to get attention... but those women annoy the crap out of me. And I would HATE to be shoved into a group with them, i.e. presumed to have cried for attention-getting purposes. Again, I'm NOT assuming that anyone is doing that. But just the IDEA of someone doing that makes me mad.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Crying never happens against your will for "no purpose." It actually clears toxins from the system.
    I need to memorize these two sentences and repeat them to myself, as a mantra, after I cry about something. I SO often forget that, after all! 99% of the times I cry, it's the result of a buildup of negative emotions over the course of a few weeks to a month, and every single time I cry, I hate that I cried. I get bewildered - "Why did I cry??" And when I find out, I don't feel like the reason is good enough. (I hold myself to similar standards as men do, with regard to crying... only I can't control how those emotions get let out. Effing estrogen. )
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  5. #35
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Can most men tell the difference between crocodile tears and the involuntary kind in your opinion, JJJ?
    I don't think most guys can reliably read whether the tears are involuntary or intentionally manipulative, since we often have a hazy idea of where the "tears line" is and it seems to change not only from woman to woman but also from day to day. We mostly have to rely on the known integrity of the woman crying. If her integrity isn't known or is mistrusted then it's a bit of a crapshoot.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Is it the unsureness of whether they are being manipulated that bothers them most, or the helpless/accused feelings that it triggers that create their reaction?
    Firstly I'm not entirely sure which reaction you're referring to. Distress? Discomfort? Mistrust? Irritation? The reaction and cause thereof would vary according to the context. I'm not sure but I think crying is designed to elicit an emotional, protective response (as with babies and mothers). It can trigger that helpless feeling you mention which can cause frustration and anger, especially if the man judges the tears unwarranted. The frustration and anger could also be caused by guilt or a feeling that the discussion has been prematurely (and unfairly) terminated by the advent of the tears. Whatever the reaction is, it will probably be amplified by the instinctual (?) distress the crying invokes.

    Add to that the suspicion that the tears may be fake and you have quite a volatile cocktail. For me, at least. Some guys may not be bothered by it at all.

  6. #36
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    How many women can produce convincing tears on command? Come on....even good actors struggle to do that. :rolli:
    If there are women who cry to manipulate, then they are unusual. The issue is male paranoia here, not female manipulation.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  7. #37
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    How many women can produce convincing tears on command? Come on....even good actors struggle to do that. :rolli:
    If there are women who cry to manipulate, then they are unusual. The issue is male paranoia here, not female manipulation.
    It doesn't have to be that realistic to be convincing in the heat of the moment. Actual tears aren't even required. Usually the fake-crying manipulators have been doing so since earliest childhood, so they don't have a problem with it. And I think there are more than you realize, probably in part because such manipulators almost never target other women.

  8. #38
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    It doesn't have to be that realistic to be convincing in the heat of the moment. Actual tears aren't even required. Usually the fake-crying manipulators have been doing so since earliest childhood, so they don't have a problem with it. And I think there are more than you realize, probably in part because such manipulators almost never target other women.
    Yes, there are those too who use crying for manipulating.

    I have had experience with one of them. I've been watching her manipulative tiers and I've wondered how her reaction seems to be all wrong and too strong in some situations and why didn't I get emotional response to her sorrow (because I do get it when the sorrow is real). It took me many years to understand her tears are fake in these situations. She uses crying to manipulate. She has found out that men close to her are extremely vulnerable around a crying woman and thus do whatever she likes when she starts crying. She uses everything for control and manipulates people as good as she can. I have seen her with real sorrow for few times. Those occasions she doesn't actually cry. I have felt her sorrow and thus felt sorry for her in those few occasions.

    Manipulating with tears isn't necessarilly something that totally mentally healthy person would do. Or would it? Or is it just winning, gaining power, controlling the best that you can with the "weapons" you have. In this case the weapon is crying.

  9. #39
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    It doesn't have to be that realistic to be convincing in the heat of the moment. Actual tears aren't even required. Usually the fake-crying manipulators have been doing so since earliest childhood, so they don't have a problem with it. And I think there are more than you realize, probably in part because such manipulators almost never target other women.
    How is that crying then? :confused:

    I think there's a lot less of these women than you seem to think there are. It seems you've had some bad experience and are now lumping all women together. That's a dangerous thing to do.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #40
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    It doesn't have to be that realistic to be convincing in the heat of the moment. Actual tears aren't even required. Usually the fake-crying manipulators have been doing so since earliest childhood, so they don't have a problem with it. And I think there are more than you realize, probably in part because such manipulators almost never target other women.
    I have been manipulated by fake-crying women TWICE. And I fell for it BOTH TIMES! So it makes me upset to think that there are more of these women, because those women make me MAD AS HELL. Plus, me being Te-dom, I feel the need for some evidence here. What percentage of the women who have cried in front of you, do you think, were doing it intentionally in order to manipulate you? And how do you know that it WAS manipulation? (Forgive me if you explained already, and I just missed those posts.)

    EDIT: I second OrangeAppled's post.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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