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  1. #11
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    It IS hard not to feel that my crying isn't the problem--but that's because it's the thing that I could try to control to whatever effect (and I'd like to control whatever I can). But I know that even if he and I figure out how to deal with emotional reactions, we've still got something to work through besides. At the moment, I feel like it's worth trying to work through.
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    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #12
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    It IS hard not to feel that my crying isn't the problem--but that's because it's the thing that I could try to control to whatever effect (and I'd like to control whatever I can).
    I didn't say your crying was the problem. I just want to make sure that's clear.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Well, sure, but I think that yelling/shouting is kind of on a par with crying. Raising one's voice in and of itself is not.
    I agree.

    I also think it's seriously fucked up that his earlier post claimed that men view crying as emotional manipulation. That's disturbing. I cry out of pain or frustration or sometimes even joy, not to manipulate anyone.

  4. #14
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm not saying that women who manipulate through crying don't exist. I just don't think it's healthy to assume that it's the norm.
    Let me give you the (non-abusive) male perspective; crying automatically makes us feel bad about our actions and turns us into the "bad guy," regardless of the validity of our position in an argument. In effect, if not necessarily by design, this gives crying women an advantage as far as arguments/disagreements with men are concerned, and thereby edges the compromises inherent in inter-personal relationships strongly in the women's favor. We assume you know this, and choose to cry anyway, and therefore perceive at least some degree of manipulation in what we regard as an unfair, inappropriate, and seriously uncool tactic. Obviously, this assumption doesn't apply in situations where we perceive justification for extreme emotion (which would make repressing the urge to cry difficult).

  5. #15
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    "Choose to cry" is where your argument went south for me. I don't choose to cry; I often wish I could keep it from happening.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #16
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    "Choose to cry" is where your argument went south for me. I don't choose to cry; I often wish I could keep it from happening.
    Same here. Many times crying is an emotional outlet because the words are so heavy, the pain is so palpable, not just mine, but the person I am talking to. To cry is not a sign that you are the "bad guy," but it is interesting food for thought.

    I can also say I have never cried in front of someone to manipulate them...it is extremely painful to share that depth of feeling with someone and it is therefore done on very rare occasions. Perhaps someone sharing their tears with you is a sign of deep trust and shouldn't be viewed as a manipulative act....
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

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  7. #17

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    ^^Lots of agreement.

    I LOATHE crying in front of others. LOATHE. On occasion it happens. Try as I might, I cannot always quell my emotional swells. I cannot fathom crying intentionally to manipulate someone. It's appalling.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  8. #18
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    "Choose to cry" is where your argument went south for me. I don't choose to cry; I often wish I could keep it from happening.
    I'm sure you don't, Ivy, but you're awesome. Surely you'll concede there are unscrupulous lasses out there with considerably less class and awesomeness than you? I've heard of more than a few girls turning on the tears when pulled over by the cops to get out of a speeding ticket, for instance. They're quite proud of it.


    YouTube - jackie fake crying.

  9. #19
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    "Choose to cry" is where your argument went south for me. I don't choose to cry; I often wish I could keep it from happening.
    Remember, I'm talking about different perspectives; if you did not feel an uncontrollable urge to cry except under the most extreme of emotional states (and sometimes not even then), can you understand why you might be somewhat suspicious of someone crying, given the consequences that crying has in relationship dynamics?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Remember, I'm talking about different perspectives; if you did not feel an uncontrollable urge to cry except under the most extreme of emotional states (and sometimes not even then), can you understand why you might be somewhat suspicious of someone crying, given the consequences that crying has in relationship dynamics?
    I cry easily. Some people do, and it's totally natural.

    Some people are more sensitive than others.

    Being suspicious of people crying is...crazy.

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