asperger thread

[wildcat]

Here's Personality Page's description of INJ types.

It's not the first time I've brought this up, but a wise man once said that if you keep repeating [an idea], eventually the people will believe it.

Also, one of the prominent traits of autism or ASD is a misunderstood fantasy life.

Yes it is amazing how slow they are to learn.
Hammer it into their heads, lad, hammer it into their heads.

A WARNING

It will take two years. And even then, half of them will still be in the dark.

 

[lowtech redneck]

IJ looks like OCD. A good point. I agree.

Why? I am INTP, and I have severe OCD (To understand just how much hell this combination is, remember that INTP's value rationality and suffer from relentless self-doubt. Now combine that with a mental illness that makes people check the stove 30 times in order to "feel" sure that the stove has been turned off). What is it about IJ that you think correlates with OCD?

 

[wildcat]

Christ, what fucking country is this!? :steam:

As for me, my psychiatrist thinks I have AS, and I think she is probably right. I never considered getting a formal diagnosis (I assume there are special tests?) to be worth the trouble.

This country is the country where they use the leaf blowers. I should like to shoot the bastards (the ones who use the leaf blowers that is) but I have two obstacles.

1. Because I am an autist, they do not give me the licence to carry a gun.
2. I cannot shoot straight.

If you do not hear the sound (a sound ?) of a leaf blower, you have nothing to fear.
If you do hear the sound of a leaf blower ringing (ringing ?) in your ears, run for your life. Depart.
Leave immediately. Escape.

To get the diagnosis you need to see a specialist. Whether or not you need one depends on your external condition.
If you hear the sound of a leaf blower, you do not need anything.
Leave. Take all your money out of the bank.
Buy a ticket to Ultima Thule.

 

[wildcat]

Why? I am INTP, and I have severe OCD (To understand just how much hell this combination is, remember that INTP's value rationality and suffer from relentless self-doubt. Now combine that with a mental illness that makes people check the stove 30 times in order to "feel" sure that the stove has been turned off). What is it about IJ that you think correlates with OCD?

Ni or Si.

What makes people think the INTPs/INFPs (= intuitive introverts !) are not high in Ni?
Most of them are extremely high in Ni. Elementary, my dear Watson.

I am an INTP and I have mild OCD. My child is INFP and she has a severe OCD.

With INJs Ni is of the first order.

With INTPs Si does not usually count. It is the 7th function on the average. But there are exceptions to every rule.

 

[lowtech redneck]

This country is the country where they use the leaf blowers. I should like to shoot the bastards (the ones who use the leaf blowers that is) but I have two obstacles.

1. Because I am an autist, they do not give me the licence to carry a gun.
2. I cannot shoot straight.

If you do not hear the sound (a sound ?) of a leaf blower, you have nothing to fear.
If you do hear the sound of a leaf blower ringing (ringing ?) in your ears, run for your life. Depart.
Leave immediately. Escape.

To get the diagnosis you need to see a specialist. Whether or not you need one depends on your external condition.
If you hear the sound of a leaf blower, you do not need anything.
Leave. Take all your money out of the bank.
Buy a ticket to Ultima Thule.

If you hadn't mentioned socialist forbidding private schools, I would think you were talking about the United States (what other country has a lot of leafblowers and allows you to carry guns? Or by "licence to carry" (concealed weapons), do you mean licence to own (weapons in your own home or automobile?) If its the latter, I would guess Canada or maybe Australia (I don't know if private schools are outlawed in those countries). If you would rather not say, that's cool, I was just curious (and outraged).

 

[lowtech redneck]

Ni or Si.

What makes people think the INTPs/INFPs (= intuitive introverts !) are not high in Ni?
Most of them are extremely high in Ni. Elementary, my dear Watson.

I am an INTP and I have mild OCD. My child is INFP and she has a severe OCD.

With INJs Ni is of the first order.

With INTPs Si does not usually count. It is the 7th function on the average. But there are exceptions to every rule.

Okay, I'll check out the descriptions somewhere (I only have the first Please Understand Me book, and I don't think I recongnize either Ni or Si from said book). I was under the misapprehension that somebody was equating OCD with Obsessive-Compulsive Personality disorder. Thanks!

 

[wildcat]

I would be interested to see if the appearance of type is influenced by Asperger's or if a tendency towards Asperger's is influenced by type.

It goes both ways. Primarily the tendency towards autism is influenced by type.
Reactively it goes the other way around. Unfortunately I do not know any studies of the reverse mechanism.

It is obvious anyway. Autism eventually turns an extravert into an introvert.
It happened to me and I have seen it happen to others.

 

[lowtech redneck]

Unless, of course, Ni stands for intuition.
If that is the case, I don't understand the connection.

 

[wildcat]

If you hadn't mentioned socialist forbidding private schools, I would think you were talking about the United States (what other country has a lot of leafblowers and allows you to carry guns? Or by "licence to carry" (concealed weapons), do you mean licence to own (weapons in your own home or automobile?) If its the latter, I would guess Canada or maybe Australia (I don't know if private schools are outlawed in those countries). If you would rather not say, that's cool, I was just curious (and outraged).

Finland.

Are you from Iowa? Do you have leafblowers only in Iowa or has the blasted raving insanity spread all over the country?
Thank you for telling me. Sakrament noch einmal! I shall never set my foot in that place. Never.

Is there a spot in the world left where you do not find the idiotic tool from hell? Tell me where it is. Hurry.

Hermann! Hermann!

Start packing!

 

[wildcat]

Okay, I'll check out the descriptions somewhere (I only have the first Please Understand Me book, and I don't think I recongnize either Ni or Si from said book). I was under the misapprehension that somebody was equating OCD with Obsessive-Compulsive Personality disorder. Thanks!

That is the equation.
If you want to know about your Ni or Si do the Cognitive Processes Test. It is a good guideline. And free.

INTP is Ti Ne - - - - Si Fe.

 

[wildcat]

Unless, of course, Ni stands for intuition.
If that is the case, I don't understand the connection.

We are not talking about a judging (rational) function. Both the T and F types have the ailment equally.
So it has to be a perceiving function.
Ne and Se stand excluded. They are impulsive (E) functions.
There is nothing impulsive about OCD.

Tomato is a fruit. It is red.
Red? I thought it is a fruit.

 

[Tigerlily]

At first, it was believed I had ADD. To the casual observer, ADD and Asperger's can seem very much alike. Mentally, however, they're the exact opposite. Where ADD finds it difficult to concentrate on one thing, Asperger's finds it difficult to concentrate on more than one thing. I was discovered to have Asperger's in the end because my interests were more obsessive.

Asperger's presents a problem in academia in that the person's focused interest is usually unrelated to what is being taught in the classroom. This is what I had. I wasn't particularly scatter-brained, but off in my own little world.

I've worked on correlations with these mental "disorders" with Jungian functions in defense to prove that they are not disorders as much as personality differences.



ADD* (attention deficit disorder) corresponds primarily to Ne.

ADHD* (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) corresponds primarily to Se.

ASD (autistic spectrum disorder) corresponds primarily to Ni.

*It is important to note the differences between ADD and ADHD which are often overlooked. Both disorders are characterized by scattered tendencies, but ADD patients are more mental (i.e. thinking about many things at once), while ADHD patients are more physical (i.e. not being able to sit still in class).

It is also interesting to note that I did not correlate any sort of mental "disorder" with Si. This is because because more than any other function, Si has a keen eye for noticing behavior traits that are out of the ordinary. Coupled with Te, Si will then categorize certain behavioral tendencies.

I almost correlated the Si type with OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder), but I then decided that OCD is more of an IxxJ trait.

Hey

How are you now and how did your parents cope with the above mentioned?

Our son is 6 and next month he will be tested in order for us to hopefully understand his problems with school. Our son is a wonderful, loving, caring person and I have no problems being around him. The problem is at school. He hates going because I believe he feels different from the other kids. He also has attention issues such as the ones you mentioned. He is scheduled for a two day evaluation next month and I am hoping we will have a better understanding of what is troubling him.

He was diagnosed as being ADHD and put on several medications that were horrible! He is now taking a non stimulant/anti anxiety med which I don't think it's helping much either.

I am starting to believe that he may have Aspergers Syndrome that is possibly made worse by certain types of food he is eating.

 

[cafe]

According to his teacher, my older son has improved a lot since I started sending his lunch and snack each day. Mostly it was a problem of his not eating and when he was eating it was all sweets and carbs. Now that I'm sending him foods with some protein, he is staying on task better and also being less disruptive. He's never been defiant or mean, he just talks and acts silly. At the wrong times.

I resisted having him on any kind of medication until I was convinced the school was doing everything they could to help him. I especially didn't want him on ADD medication because he is so hard to feed and very small for his age. The last thing he needs is a medication that will make him lose his appetite. I think we're going to get him trough elementary unmedicated. We'll deal with middle school when we get there.

If you do not like how things are being handled at school, you have a right to have them looked into and changed. You have a lot of rights, but they are probably not going to volunteer much. You have to push and you have to push in just the right way. Or that has been my experience and from what I've read it's far from unique.

 

[Tigerlily]

According to his teacher, my older son has improved a lot since I started sending his lunch and snack each day. Mostly it was a problem of his not eating and when he was eating it was all sweets and carbs. Now that I'm sending him foods with some protein, he is staying on task better and also being less disruptive. He's never been defiant or mean, he just talks and acts silly. At the wrong times.

I resisted having him on any kind of medication until I was convinced the school was doing everything they could to help him. I especially didn't want him on ADD medication because he is so hard to feed and very small for his age. The last thing he needs is a medication that will make him lose his appetite. I think we're going to get him trough elementary unmedicated. We'll deal with middle school when we get there.

If you do not like how things are being handled at school, you have a right to have them looked into and changed. You have a lot of rights, but they are probably not going to volunteer much. You have to push and you have to push in just the right way. Or that has been my experience and from what I've read it's far from unique.

I am going to try removing gluten out of our sons diet and see how he does.

Here is a good site that I found Gluten Free: GrowingKids
I've also ordered Incredible Edible Gluten-Free Food for Kids: 150
Family-Tested Recipes at Amazon, so we'll see <fingers crossed>

Cafe did you say your sons were in school? When I walked my son to class this morning I noticed that the kids have two tables with at least 6 kids per table. I mentioned to my sons teacher that he might do better at his own table as long as he doesn't feel alienated from the others. He was also sitting at a table with two other boys who he doesn't get along with very well.

I would have thought his teacher would have picked up on this but when I brought this to her attention she said that he has difficulties no matter what table he's at. Of course my solution would instantly be seat him on his own! :rolli:

 

[cafe]

I am going to try removing gluten out of our sons diet and see how he does.

Here is a good site that I found Gluten Free: GrowingKids
I've also ordered Incredible Edible Gluten-Free Food for Kids: 150
Family-Tested Recipes at Amazon, so we'll see <fingers crossed>

I've seen that one. I can't remember if I bought it or not. I was trying it out for my daughter when she was having a lot of stomach and anxiety problems. It turned out to be a problem with dairy. Even when it doesn't make her sick outright, it makes her very irritable.

Cafe did you say your sons were in school? When I walked my son to class this morning I noticed that the kids have two tables with at least 6 kids per table. I mentioned to my sons teacher that he might do better at his own table as long as he doesn't feel alienated from the others. He was also sitting at a table with two other boys who he doesn't get along with very well.

I would have thought his teacher would have picked up on this but when I brought this to her attention she said that he has difficulties no matter what table he's at. Of course my solution would instantly be seat him on his own! :rolli:

You would think.

They had my daughter at a table with a bunch of kids (usually next to the difficult ones because they knew she'd still be good). It was stressing her out so I asked them to move her someplace quieter, maybe even put her in a study carrel. They said they would do it, but they never did. I guess they didn't teach them to do things like that in the El Ed program or something.

My boys do okay, well, I mean, they are mostly having a fine time themselves in class. My younger son has most of the class trying to help him out. My older son thinks he's the entertainment committee. He gets moved sometimes when he is more disruptive than his teacher feels like dealing with at the time. She seems not to really be put out by him and he isn't complaining, so I'm just leaving that sleeping dog lie for now. I'm sure they hear more than they want to from me already.

 

[wildcat]

According to his teacher, my older son has improved a lot since I started sending his lunch and snack each day. Mostly it was a problem of his not eating and when he was eating it was all sweets and carbs. Now that I'm sending him foods with some protein, he is staying on task better and also being less disruptive. He's never been defiant or mean, he just talks and acts silly. At the wrong times.

I resisted having him on any kind of medication until I was convinced the school was doing everything they could to help him. I especially didn't want him on ADD medication because he is so hard to feed and very small for his age. The last thing he needs is a medication that will make him lose his appetite. I think we're going to get him trough elementary unmedicated. We'll deal with middle school when we get there.

If you do not like how things are being handled at school, you have a right to have them looked into and changed. You have a lot of rights, but they are probably not going to volunteer much. You have to push and you have to push in just the right way. Or that has been my experience and from what I've read it's far from unique.

The danger in amphetamine is not only the loss of appetite. It may be the least of the problems.

And is it indeed prescribed for the patient? Or is it prescribed to have the patient to "fit in" the society? For the comfort of the teacher?

Is the patient any kind of a patient?

My mother had and has extreme ADD. She did well in school. Her mother called her lazy. She was not prescribed anything. They did not "know" about the problem in the 20s.

I had extreme ADD throughout the school years. And if anything, I am worse now.

My daughter had and has extreme ADD. She had to give up the school.
Why? Who is responsible? The doctor who prescribed her amphetamine?

When you use amphetamine you do not sleep. When you do not sleep your situation is hellish. We all need our sleep, especially children.

When you give up the amphetamine- (and you have to, because it is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. It may lead even to suicide.) there will be the withdrawal problem.

Who gives these quack doctors the right to drug children? We do. Are we mad?

Nobody drugged me because they did not know about the ADD when I went to school.

 

[wildcat]

What is ADD?

I open the wardrobe. I am looking for my white shirt. I say: The shirt is not there.
There is somebody else in the room.
A spouse, a friend, whoever.
She opens the wardrobe and takes out the shirt.

Did I see the shirt? Yes I did.


I go to school. The teacher says something. The teacher asks: Did you get what I said?
I say no.
Did I get what the teacher said?
Yes I did.


WHO IS I?
This is the relevance in ADD.

The ADD "patient" does get it. He only does not know immediately he gets it because he is inside his world.
And can you "cure" his world?
No. Let it be then. Accept it, for god's sake.

And I say it does not hinder academic accomplishment. My mother did well in school. She took out her M.A. without any problem.
Why? Because the teachers did not make her an obstacle.

They made me an obstacle.
The telephone was ringing.
There was the teacher. Can I speak to your mother?
That kind of thing.
Day in, day out.
My mother (another ADD-autist, very ironic) gets the receiver.
The teacher: He stares at me all the time! I cannot think! I cannot think! I cannot teach!
Are not the children supposed to look at the teacher?

We are all ADD to a degree.
When you are thinking about something what does it mean? It means you have a problem. When you have a problem your thinking is intense.
The difference between the neuroatypical and the neurotypical is in the degree. The neuroatypical has a prevalent problem. He is always thinking intensely.

What happens when you are looking for your notebook in the drawer and the telephone rings and somebody says your father is dead?
You open the drawer and your wife asks: Did you find your notebook?
You say: No, it was not there.

Of course the notebook was there. And you knew it was there.

What the normal person experiences in a crisis is just the routine way of life for the neuroatypical person.

 

[cafe]

The danger in amphetamine is not only the loss of appetite. It may be the least of the problems.

And is it indeed prescribed for the patient? Or is it prescribed to have the patient to "fit in" the society? For the comfort of the teacher?

Is the patient any kind of a patient?

My mother had and has extreme ADD. She did well in school. Her mother called her lazy. She was not prescribed anything. They did not "know" about the problem in the 20s.

I had extreme ADD throughout the school years. And if anything, I am worse now.

My daughter had and has extreme ADD. She had to give up the school.
Why? Who is responsible? The doctor who prescribed her amphetamine?

When you use amphetamine you do not sleep. When you do not sleep your situation is hellish. We all need our sleep, especially children.

When you give up the amphetamine- (and you have to, because it is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. It may lead even to suicide.) there will be the withdrawal problem.

Who gives these quack doctors the right to drug children? We do. Are we mad?

Nobody drugged me because they did not know about the ADD when I went to school.

Same with me. I mean, they probably knew about it when I was in elementary school, but I was not at all disruptive. I always did well on the standardized tests at school, but I rarely did my schoolwork. Looking back, it appears that when it was time to learn something new, I paid enough attention to learn it. Once I mastered the concept to my satisfaction, I went back to my daydreaming. To this day, once I really feel I have mastered something, it loses my interest. I become bored with it and have trouble making myself do it.

I was diagnosed with ADD as an adult, but because of my weight the doctor would not prescribe a stimulant drug. Instead I was prescribed Straterra, the only drug for ADD at that time (and maybe still) that was supposed to be weight neutral. It still caused a drastic decrease in my appetite. No food sounded good. When I tried to eat, I was unable to eat much. I felt tired and shaky, if not faint, most of the time. It was better to feel as though I was senile.

This made me think that that drug might also cause my son problems with his appetite. If his concentration was so poor that he was unable to learn or his impulse control was so bad that he was causing significant disruption in class, I might consider medication for him after the school had attempted every reasonable thing to deal with the problems semi-intelligently. I refuse to medicate any of my children as a simple convenience to people who are supposed to be professionals at handling children and teaching them. The school is supposed to be for the children, not the children for the school.

 

[wildcat]

Same with me. I mean, they probably knew about it when I was in elementary school, but I was not at all disruptive. I always did well on the standardized tests at school, but I rarely did my schoolwork. Looking back, it appears that when it was time to learn something new, I paid enough attention to learn it. Once I mastered the concept to my satisfaction, I went back to my daydreaming. To this day, once I really feel I have mastered something, it loses my interest. I become bored with it and have trouble making myself do it.

I was diagnosed with ADD as an adult, but because of my weight the doctor would not prescribe a stimulant drug. Instead I was prescribed Straterra, the only drug for ADD at that time (and maybe still) that was supposed to be weight neutral. It still caused a drastic decrease in my appetite. No food sounded good. When I tried to eat, I was unable to eat much. I felt tired and shaky, if not faint, most of the time. It was better to feel as though I was senile.

This made me think that that drug might also cause my son problems with his appetite. If his concentration was so poor that he was unable to learn or his impulse control was so bad that he was causing significant disruption in class, I might consider medication for him after the school had attempted every reasonable thing to deal with the problems semi-intelligently. I refuse to medicate any of my children as a simple convenience to people who are supposed to be professionals at handling children and teaching them. The school is supposed to be for the children, not the children for the school.

It seems to me upon reflecting upon your post the teachers treat neuroatypical girls very differently from what they treat us boys.

Every time my mother phones me she brags about how well she did when she was a schoolgirl.
The teachers adored her blah blah.

She smiled at them.
And of course a ready smile works magic:
It is the only thing that matters in the universe.
A benevolent grin opens all the gates.

Listen now carefully.
There is a rang of order in society.

The client partner is the first to smile. Remember this.

Be you the initiator.
When you go to the coffee shop do not forget to smile at the waitress.

Less you have to pay a double price for your coffee cup.

It all amounts to the same thingie.
All the problems upon the globe are about one thing only.
Impression.

Why do they not teach the art of impression at school?
I tell you why.
It is the Gnostic something.

Instead they teach all kinds of nonsense.
How many tributaries Amazon has? What are their exact Indian names?

It is not that I did not like that kind of information.
I did.

The question is that they asked about the thing A when I thought about the thing B.

A crime in essence.

It is they who need medication.

 

[Benjamin]

I was diagnosed last February with Asperger's Syndrome. I always knew I was different, but my doctor helped me out with the information. Most of my life makes sense to me now, though I may be a bit too old to change some things, now I have a better understanding of AS and what others have gone through as well. The way I figure it is that people with Asperger's Syndrome can have different MBTI types. I have ISTP. On one of the posts, the person talked about a daughter being ENTP with AS.