asperger thread

[substitute]

Not too sure about that Carebear... I think my Aspie daughter could well be ENTP. It's not that she doesn't use an extraverted perceiving function, it's more that she's sorta perceptionally dyslexic, if you get my meaning? She uses it as much as the next guy (well, unless the next guy is me or someone with even more dominant Ne lol), but there's a mental block that prevents her from using it correctly. Or she just perceives different things to me, because she has different values and priorities. Just like I have a hell of a time using Se, not because I can't look outside of myself, but because I've spent most of my life just uninterested in the things Se has to offer; in a similar way, I think my daughter is just not interested in the sorts of things I use my Ne to see, and so uses hers to see other stuff.

That, and the social dyslexia thing. I mean I have known dyslexic people (worked with a help group once) who were Se or Ne dominant, and used it brilliantly in all things except literacy; could be that extraverted perceiving Aspies are similar, in that they use their perceiving function just fine, in all areas except social.

 

[armstrongvk12]

If you evaluate a measure the first question should be:
Who employs the measure?
The end is the means.

Statistics has got the logic inside the measure.
Is the logic of a thing inside the measure?

I am asking what measure he employed to prove his hypothesis and what population he sampled? I understand what statistics are....I've had three classes.

 

[miss fortune]

well, yes Sub- sometimes people who can't read as well compensate by developing coping strategies that can put them ahead of others in other areas of life!

 

[MerkW]

I completely agree! I do have a very dear friend who is an INTJ...and there is a sort of aspberger-ness to him, but I think is due to 1) his absolute honesty, despite hurting other's feelings 2) his anti-social behavior 3) his diminished ability to "read" others in his dealings with people. He is a STRONG INTJ which makes sense given the things that I mentioned.

What on earth does that have to do with what I said?

 

[armstrongvk12]

Why do they insist on teaching to his weaknesses, like organization, instead of his strengths? Someone once said madness is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, but the teachers never change their strategies so that they can effectively teach him. (And they say HE needs drugs??)

The reason why the teachers continue to teach to your son's weakness is because they are teaching to THEIR strength. I am going to assume that your son may still be in elementary school? Most elementary school teachers are women and they happen to be SJs. They are into conformity, rules and control. When your son does not conform to their requests, they take it personally because these are things that are important to SJs. Most teachers are not NTs, are not interested in potential (just performance) and most teachers are not gifted. I always try to explain to children like your son....I am not grading your brain, which may be an "A," I am grading what you turn in to me because I have nothing else to grade. I am an ENTJ gifted teacher and a gifted NT is one of the rarest of birds. I would try to find a magnet school that perhaps focuses on science...or a school where the focus is on gifted children.

 

[armstrongvk12]

What on earth does that have to do with what I said?

Oops! I guess I didn't understand what you were saying!

 

[redacted]

Your argument appears somewhat logically superfluous.

From the DSM-IV:


Name one thing on that list that is distinctly Ti.

I don't know about distinctly Ti, but i don't think it's distinctly Ne either.

1. Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.

eh. lack of Se or Te.

2. Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.

lack of Te?

3. Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.

Ti hyperfocusing possibly...trying to abstract a system. Lack of Se? i don't know about functions on this one...some sort of focus on an introverted function?

4. Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).

Lack of Te or Si?

5. Often has trouble organizing activities.

lack of Te.

6. Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).

mehhhhh. Ne or Se i guess.

7. Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).

lack of Te.

8. Is often easily distracted.

Se or Ne

9. Is often forgetful in daily activities.

Lack of Te.


well you're right. i can't really find anything that's distinctly Ti.

but a heavy focus on Ti may explain the lack of focus on other extroverted functions. i guess that's more what i was trying to get at. so maybe i was approaching my argument the wrong way.

i should've made the claim that ADD isn't necessarily Ne. instead, it's a lack of Te. yeah, that's a better claim.

you win!

 

[JustDave]

I'd like to interject a question, if I may.

Briefly, what is hyperfocusing? And would any of the following be examples of hyperfocusing:

- While watching an interesting movie, not hearing one brother talking to him while said someone's brother is sitting about two feet away.

- Being so engrossed in trying to solve a problem that one does not realize this his or her boss has been standing behing him or her for a few minutes.

- The ability to tune out everything except the precise thing one is focusing on at the moment.

 

[redacted]

I'd like to interject a question, if I may.

Briefly, what is hyperfocusing? And would any of the following be examples of hyperfocusing:

- While watching an interesting movie, not hearing one brother talking to him while said someone's brother is sitting about two feet away.

- Being so engrossed in trying to solve a problem that one does not realize this his or her boss has been standing behing him or her for a few minutes.

- The ability to tune out everything except the precise thing one is focusing on at the moment.

yes, those are all examples.

that's more what my ADD is about

 

[MerkW]

I'd like to interject a question, if I may.

Briefly, what is hyperfocusing?

The definition of hyperfocus:
"...[A]n intense form of mental concentration or visualization that focuses consciousness on a narrow subject, or beyond objective reality and onto subjective mental planes, daydreams, concepts, fiction, the imagination, and other objects of the mind."

And would any of the following be examples of hyperfocusing:

- While watching an interesting movie, not hearing one brother talking to him while said someone's brother is sitting about two feet away.

- Being so engrossed in trying to solve a problem that one does not realize this his or her boss has been standing behing him or her for a few minutes.

- The ability to tune out everything except the precise thing one is focusing on at the moment.

Not the first as much, but certainly the second and third.

 

[Carebear]

Not too sure about that Carebear... I think my Aspie daughter could well be ENTP. It's not that she doesn't use an extraverted perceiving function, it's more that she's sorta perceptionally dyslexic, if you get my meaning? She uses it as much as the next guy (well, unless the next guy is me or someone with even more dominant Ne lol), but there's a mental block that prevents her from using it correctly. Or she just perceives different things to me, because she has different values and priorities. Just like I have a hell of a time using Se, not because I can't look outside of myself, but because I've spent most of my life just uninterested in the things Se has to offer; in a similar way, I think my daughter is just not interested in the sorts of things I use my Ne to see, and so uses hers to see other stuff.

That, and the social dyslexia thing. I mean I have known dyslexic people (worked with a help group once) who were Se or Ne dominant, and used it brilliantly in all things except literacy; could be that extraverted perceiving Aspies are similar, in that they use their perceiving function just fine, in all areas except social.

Good point. Maybe it's the same as with being a saint/douchebag. MBTI doesn't explain why people are either of those, but it will be able to explain the ways in which it manifests. Dunno, need to think more.

 

[JustDave]

The definition of hyperfocus:
"...[A]n intense form of mental concentration or visualization that focuses consciousness on a narrow subject, or beyond objective reality and onto subjective mental planes, daydreams, concepts, fiction, the imagination, and other objects of the mind."



Not the first as much, but certainly the second and third.

Thank you Merk.

What function is responsible for hyperfocusing? And god help anyone who tells me to read through the last few pages of this thread.

 

[MerkW]

i should've made the claim that ADD isn't necessarily Ne. instead, it's a lack of Te. yeah, that's a better claim.
you win!

Hmm. I'm not so sure about that. I think that there are several anti-Te traits present in ADD, but I think it actually has more to do with absent Si.

Here is how I view psychological conditions in Jungian functional format:

1. Anxiety disorders: (especially OCD): Introverted Perception (IxxJ)
2. Autism: Si and/or Ti + Sensing--ISxJ, ISTP
3. Asperger's Syndrome: Ni and/or Ti + intuition--INxJ, INTP
4. ADD: Extroverted Perception (ENxP)
5. ADHD: Extroverted Sensing (ESxP)
6. Bi-Polar Disorder/Manic Depression: Introverted Feeling (IxFP)
7. Paranoid Schizophrenia: Dominant Intuition (ENxP, INxJ)

 

[MerkW]

Thank you Merk.

What function is responsible for hyperfocusing? And god help anyone who tells me to read through the last few pages of this thread.

Since Introverted Judging functions are responsible for internal focus, it would be quite clear that Fi and Ti types (IxxP) would be best at hyperfocus. Accordingly, Ti more so than Fi, so ISTP and INTP, but especially the latter.

 

[JustDave]

Since Introverted Judging functions are responsible for internal focus, it would be quite clear that Fi and Ti types (IxxP) would be best at hyperfocus. Accordingly, Ti more so than Fi, so ISTP and INTP, but especially the latter.

Understood. Thanks again.

 

[Jae Rae]

Here is how I view psychological conditions in Jungian functional format:

1. Anxiety disorders: (especially OCD): Introverted Perception (IxxJ)
2. Autism: Si and/or Ti + Sensing--ISxJ, ISTP
3. Asperger's Syndrome: Ni and/or Ti + intuition--INxJ, INTP
4. ADD: Extroverted Perception (ENxP)
5. ADHD: Extroverted Sensing (ESxP)
6. Bi-Polar Disorder/Manic Depression: Introverted Feeling (IxFP)
7. Paranoid Schizophrenia: Dominant Intuition (ENxP, INxJ)

What about ENXJs?

Jae Rae

 

[MerkW]

What about ENXJs?

Jae Rae

Ah. Well, ENFJs can easily fall in the bi-polar group. ENTJs, if anything, would have something along the line of sociopathy, sadistic personality disorder, possibly anger management issues.

 

[redacted]

Hmm. I'm not so sure about that. I think that there are several anti-Te traits present in ADD, but I think it actually has more to do with absent Si.

Here is how I view psychological conditions in Jungian functional format:

1. Anxiety disorders: (especially OCD): Introverted Perception (IxxJ)
2. Autism: Si and/or Ti + Sensing--ISxJ, ISTP
3. Asperger's Syndrome: Ni and/or Ti + intuition--INxJ, INTP
4. ADD: Extroverted Perception (ENxP)
5. ADHD: Extroverted Sensing (ESxP)
6. Bi-Polar Disorder/Manic Depression: Introverted Feeling (IxFP)
7. Paranoid Schizophrenia: Dominant Intuition (ENxP, INxJ)

well i have a problem with your view of ADD then, since i'm certainly not ENxP. again, i think my heavy heavy focus on Ti (in school, i act much more like an IxTP) leads to hyperfocusing. when i'm hyperfocusing, i'm essentially only using Ti, which means i'm not listening to people or focusing on tasks or caring about what i'm "supposed" to be doing, etc.

 

[MerkW]

well i have a problem with your view of ADD then, since i'm certainly not ENxP. again, i think my heavy heavy focus on Ti (in school, i act much more like an IxTP) leads to hyperfocusing. when i'm hyperfocusing, i'm essentially only using Ti, which means i'm not listening to people or focusing on tasks or caring about what i'm "supposed" to be doing, etc.

I never said that one with a psychiatric disorder has to be the type(s) I have listed. I am simply saying that such is the strongest correlation.

 

[wildcat]

Hi, everyone - I hope you don't mind if I intrude? I've been lurking for a few months, but this thread got me to finally become a member so I could post.

My son is ADD and I almost certainly am, too. I believe he's an INTP (although sometimes he tests INFP) and he's always struggled with inattention to everything but what he's interested in. If he's interested in something (like science) you CANNOT tear him away from it. He has trouble in school because even though he tests as gifted (top 1% in science nationally, top 3% overall) the schools only see that he forgets his homework, loses things, etc. and they seem to take it personally. His grades suffer badly because of it.

Why do they insist on teaching to his weaknesses, like organization, instead of his strengths? Someone once said madness is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, but the teachers never change their strategies so that they can effectively teach him. (And they say HE needs drugs??)

Anyway, forgive my little rambling rant. I really wanted to say to you, Wildcat, that your description of life as ADD is exactly right. And I'm really sorry that you had such a hard time with school, too. I'm watching my son go through it and I know how awful it can be.

I am sorry your child had to go through all this.

The teachers seem to be just as bad as they were in my day. It is a sad spectacle.

Welcome to the forum.