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Thread: asperger thread

  1. #11
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    My daughter has Aspies. She seems to be ENTP though, same as me. I used to think she was INTP, but by the time she was 9 she was more popular at school than her ENFJ sister (who herself, was always very gregarious and easily makes friends). Whenever we have people over, she always wants to be where the people are and loves to talk. She's also nowhere near as unsettled by changes in routine etc than any other Aspie I know.

    The shrink can't understand it. He says without a doubt she does have Asperger's, but yet she seems to cope with it so well.

    I've a theory that if she is ENTP, then perhaps the dominant Ne sorta compensates in a way for the effect of the autism, making her almost as adaptable and sociable as the next person...

    My dad had it too, and he was ISTP. Never particularly popular, he was never totally rejected either, he's coped reasonably well sociably most of his life and managed to get married and have 5 kids, get and hold down jobs. Granted, his wife left him and his kids didn't want much to do with him past adulthood, because of his TOTAL obsession with his religion and INSISTENCE that it was the best thing for everyone, and that everyone just loved to talk about it all the time! Being his kid was never easy either, as he just point blank could never see anyone's point of view and would punish SEVERELY those who couldn't come round to his. But I can't imagine my daughter having these problems anywhere near so much.
    The shrink may not understand it, but I do. There I recognize my childhood.
    Asperger and ENTP and popular.
    I think you are quite right about the Ne.
    It remains to be seen if she will remain Ne dominant after puberty.

    I find it very odd that an ISTP should be interested in religion at all. The ISTP is not counter culture, therefore I take it his religion is the usual brand of Christianity.
    It is even more odd that he insists that everybody follows his lead. This does not sound like an ISTP description at all. They are usually very set back.
    On the other hand they do conform to the peer group. And more than that, the peer group is everything for them. I am still puzzled that the peer group should be a religious group. It has to be of long standing.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    My daughter has Aspies. She seems to be ENTP though, same as me. I used to think she was INTP, but by the time she was 9 she was more popular at school than her ENFJ sister (who herself, was always very gregarious and easily makes friends). Whenever we have people over, she always wants to be where the people are and loves to talk. She's also nowhere near as unsettled by changes in routine etc than any other Aspie I know.

    The shrink can't understand it. He says without a doubt she does have Asperger's, but yet she seems to cope with it so well.

    I've a theory that if she is ENTP, then perhaps the dominant Ne sorta compensates in a way for the effect of the autism, making her almost as adaptable and sociable as the next person...
    Keirsey's description of the entire NT temperament in Please Understand Me II also seems to be strongly linked to autistic spectrum disorders.

    He correlates the SP temperament with ADHD. This is probably why ADHD has become so common in children, because of an overrepresentation of the SP temperament.

    Autism, on the other hand, is still quite rare, much like the NT temperament.

  3. #13
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I am not confirmed, but there there was suspicion.

    Since I have basically recovered from my depression (which seemed somewhat tied to my Asperger's like symptoms), my counselor said not to worry about that unless things get bad again(to avoid negative rumination, I guess).
    Yes. Depression is not tied to Asperger (the cause) but to the effect.
    Reactive depression is brought by an external condition. When the external condition changes, it goes away.

  4. #14
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    I am supposed to have asberger's from some testing done when I was pretty young. It doesn't really mean anything to me, because I already know that I'm not very social and that I tend to get very interested in things. These traits don't really seem strange, though, they just seem like variations on what other people are like. I don't really mention it at all, because I'd rather have stuff I say be taken for what it is, not as stuff that "the asberger guy" does.
    That is the way I see it.

    It would be all right if the society at large saw it that way also.

    I tell you what takes place in this country. The social bureaucrats have much too much power.
    They are mostly ESFJ women. The shcoolteachers are also ESFJ women. Now there is an Asperger case in the classroom. The ESFJ teacher contacts the ESFJ social bureaucrat and complains she has a problem child in the classroom.
    The bureucrat pays a visit to the problem child's home. As the child has Asperger, the parents- or at least a parent- are NTs.
    The ESFJ woman has it in his mind that the entire family are a bunch of nutcases.
    The child is forcibly removed from home and placed into an institution. In the institution the conditions are unspeakable. The child's life is ruined.

    If the child has a diagnosis the parents have a small chance to get the child back.
    If there is no diagnosis, it is a lost case.
    The social worker does not accept that the child visits home. The parents, being a pair of nuts, constitute a bad model for the child.
    The parents have little chance to see their child any more.

    The child gets depression. She is placed into an institution of the mentally unstable. There she is under a heavy sedation. The drugs she is given are totally wrong for an Asperger child.

    The socialists forbade the private schools. This is what we have now.

  5. #15
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    That's horrible, widlcat. As much as I whine about the stuff I go through with the schools here, I don't really have to worry about them taking my sons away. They don't like to do institutions here and it is hard to place "special needs kids" in foster homes. It's easier and cheaper for them to leave them with us.

    It seems to take something like an act of God to get special services that cost money at the schools even though they are legally obligated to provide whatever the child needs in order to learn, though.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #16
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    That's horrible, widlcat. As much as I whine about the stuff I go through with the schools here, I don't really have to worry about them taking my sons away. They don't like to do institutions here and it is hard to place "special needs kids" in foster homes. It's easier and cheaper for them to leave them with us.

    It seems to take something like an act of God to get special services that cost money at the schools even though they are legally obligated to provide whatever the child needs in order to learn, though.
    It would be much cheaper here also.
    Unfortunately in Europe the fiscal point is never an issue. On the contrary, the politicians buy votes by spending money. The public does not understand it is out of their pocket.

    Indiana is better.
    But as you say, it is not perfect either.

  7. #17
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    At first, it was believed I had ADD. To the casual observer, ADD and Asperger's can seem very much alike. Mentally, however, they're the exact opposite. Where ADD finds it difficult to concentrate on one thing, Asperger's finds it difficult to concentrate on more than one thing. I was discovered to have Asperger's in the end because my interests were more obsessive.

    Asperger's presents a problem in academia in that the person's focused interest is usually unrelated to what is being taught in the classroom. This is what I had. I wasn't particularly scatter-brained, but off in my own little world.

    I've worked on correlations with these mental "disorders" with Jungian functions in defense to prove that they are not disorders as much as personality differences.

    ADD* (attention deficit disorder) corresponds primarily to Ne.

    ADHD* (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) corresponds primarily to Se.

    ASD (autistic spectrum disorder) corresponds primarily to Ni.

    *It is important to note the differences between ADD and ADHD which are often overlooked. Both disorders are characterized by scattered tendencies, but ADD patients are more mental (i.e. thinking about many things at once), while ADHD patients are more physical (i.e. not being able to sit still in class).

    It is also interesting to note that I did not correlate any sort of mental "disorder" with Si. This is because because more than any other function, Si has a keen eye for noticing behavior traits that are out of the ordinary. Coupled with Te, Si will then categorize certain behavioral tendencies.

    I almost correlated the Si type with OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder), but I then decided that OCD is more of an IxxJ trait.
    I see your point. Well, is there a contradiction between the two?

    Obsession and thinking are at the bottom line of the neuroatypical variety.
    I am obsessed with thinking all the time.
    My thinking is obsessed with a theme.
    As you said it: a question of focus only.
    Say when I make coffee where is my focus?

    Sometimes the coffee is all right by a miracle. But miracles do not take place every year.
    I am not interested in mundane matters such a coffee making. This is called ADD.
    I did not listen to the teachers at school either. For the same reason that I do not make perfect coffee. The teachers were mundane = boring.

    I agree ADD is primarily about Ne. Indivisible in attention.
    OK.
    The ADD people seem to think about many things at once only because the society pushes its will down their throats:

    The society, by their taxation policy, is guilty. I am compelled to make coffee. There is no coffee house in this sordid village.
    I plead innocent.

    My grandmother made good coffee, the German variety. She also played the Beethoven sonatas very well. She liked to arrange flowers. A perfect German Hausfrau.
    Why we do not have people like that any more?

    IJ looks like OCD. A good point. I agree.
    It is interesting what you said about autism and Ni. I have to think about it.

  8. #18
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keoren View Post
    I've lately been highly suspected of having AS (which I don't personally consider a disorder) and am planning on reserving a time for researches. When I was younger, I was almost an archetype of a child with Asperger's, but it has slowly become less visible, mainly due to social pressure.

    But indeed, it's not "set in stone" so I don't know if I can fully contribute (in reality I don't feel like writing much more at the moment).

    Has anyone read about the theory about the link between autism and Neanderthals?
    I have.
    The theory goes that AS is more common among the Cro Magnon.
    Of course, one has to take into account culture. AS was found in Europe and the subject has been studied by the Swedes.
    The Swedes happen to represent the Cro Magnon variety.

    There has been less study outside of Europe. For that reason there may be less AS prevalence among the non Cro Magnon.

    It may well be that the Cro Magnon represents a hybrid.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    It is interesting what you said about autism and Ni. I have to think about it.
    Here's Personality Page's description of INJ types.

    It's not the first time I've brought this up, but a wise man once said that if you keep repeating [an idea], eventually the people will believe it.

    Also, one of the prominent traits of autism or ASD is a misunderstood fantasy life.

  10. #20
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I tell you what takes place in this country.
    Christ, what fucking country is this!? :steam:

    As for me, my psychiatrist thinks I have AS, and I think she is probably right. I never considered getting a formal diagnosis (I assume there are special tests?) to be worth the trouble.

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