"I'm Complicated"

[proteanmix]

I'm not really sure what people mean when they say this. I heard it again last night by a friend of mine and I puzzled a bit. Usually when someone makes this comment I find they're making an excuse for behavior that is misleading and contradictory. This is not indicative of complexity to me.

I consider myself transparent person, which means I don't try to hide or obscure the mechanics of who I am. When people say they're "complex" what do they mean? Is saying "I'm complicated" suppose to pass for self-awareness and introspection? Is it saying that I'm a deep and thoughtful person, or is is a warning that they're really self-involved?

That phrase is almost beginning to sound hackneyed like "I'm an out of the box thinker." No one really knows what that means, but nearly everyone thinks they do it.

 

[ygolo]

I'm not sure about "I'm Complicated", but I use "It's Complicated" as a subtle warning that the time and energy needed to explain something is large and likely not worth our effort.

I assume "I'm Complicated" is a self-referential version of that.

 

[Totenkindly]

I don't know, ygolo. Some people ARE complicated in how they think.

But I think the average person uses this line in order to excuse their inability to rationally/consistently explain why they are behaving the way they are. It is mostly a lazy fluff comment meant to avoid embarrassment or deflect criticism. That is the context under which I have generally heard it being used.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

You covered most of the possibilities for what that phrase might mean, I think.

There are different vantage points by which to view people. On one level our needs are simple, but there is a lens through which any person is complicated. Someone declaring themselves complicated can mean something a little different from simply 'being complicated'. Wanting that as a personal label could be a way of excusing inconsistencies or lack of forthrightness.

People are complicated when they have multi-layered processes that influence their thoughts and behaviors. Childhood experiences that impact deeply stay with a person for life, even when they are unaware of it. Basically any self-destructive tendency results from a very complex layering of influences and attempts at coping. We keep a lot of impressions buried in our subconscious. I suppose when these are not reconciled with our deliberate thought processes, then we can think and behave in ways that baffle us.

The basis of personality complexity seems to result from being required to reconcile polar opposites, whether as a result of natural ability/deficits, or from conflicting experiences. Does that sound plausible?

Examples of complexity resulting from reconciling polar opposites:
The brilliant mathematician who cannot solve a cross-word puzzle
The philanthropist who cannot form an intimate relationship
The renowned performer who is too shy to engage in small talk
The athlete who suffers chronic pain
Or even a gifted composer (Beethoven) who is deaf
Granted these are all exaggerations of plausible people, but the concept of reconciling opposites creates a continual inner negotiation that people with consistent abilities and experiences are not burdened by.

 

[substitute]

I sometimes say it, not because I think I am but because other people tell me I am all the time, and it seems to help them understand ... something, I don't know what. I don't use it as an excuse, but more an explanation. And I mean it in the way Toonia describes - the layers, man, the layers.

"I'm an out of the box thinker." No one really knows what that means, but nearly everyone thinks they do it.

But I do!!!! Dammit, don't take away from me the only use I have in this damn world!

 

[cafe]

I don't use "complicated" I use "conflicted." I recognize my contradictions and inconsistencies. If I could figure out how to make myself uniform and consistent I would, but I'm not there yet. I'm beginning to suspect it's not ever going to happen for me.

Are there people who are not complicated?

Edit: I also do not consider the inner workings of my psyche anyone else's business. It's my psyche and if I don't want to share it I will not. I'm no more obligated to be transparent about my thoughts and feelings than I am to strip naked on demand.

 

[ptgatsby]

AKA "Don't put me in a box", AKA "You just don't understand me".

Also see; "I have no reason to believe these things but trying to explain them would expose me, so I'm not going to."

 

[FDG]

When somebody says that, I alway reply that being complicated is not equal to being unexplainable. By all means, tell me your contradictions so that I can understand why your behavior is not logical. Many times the label is masked as unwilligness to talk about an issue that is being hidden under a different justification/cause.

 

[substitute]

When somebody says that, I alway reply that being complicated is not equal to being unexplainable. By all means, tell me your contradictions so that I can understand why your behavior is not logical. Many times the label is masked as unwilligness to talk about an issue that is being hidden under a different justification/cause.

Aw nuts, I know that one - I've seen it so many times and come to dread it - the ENTJ standing with his arms folded, raises one eyebrow and gestures with a hand, saying, "Try me." Yah. That really reassures me and puts me in the mood for the kind of voluntary vulnerability involved in self-disclosure!

I still don't know why it is that I love ENTJ's so much... hahaha...
Also, I have to say regarding this:

I consider myself transparent person, which means I don't try to hide or obscure the mechanics of who I am.

...that you should consider yourself lucky that you're able to feel that way, and try not to judge people if they don't feel they have the luxury of being that way. Some of us have spent a lifetime being punished for who we are, and learned that hiding and obscuring the mechanics of who we are is the only way to survive. For people like me and like Jennifer, perhaps, making ourselves 'transparent' means a heck of a lot of overcoming very ingrained, very real fears based on a lifetime of wretched experience.

 

[FDG]

Aw nuts, I know that one - I've seen it so many times and come to dread it - the ENTJ standing with his arms folded, raises one eyebrow and gestures with a hand, saying, "Try me." Yah. That really reassures me and puts me in the mood for the kind of voluntary vulnerability involved in self-disclosure!

I still don't know why it is that I love ENTJ's so much... hahaha...

ahhahahahaa, shall i give my entp friend an hug next time? ahahahahaa

In any case, I'm "complicated" too in certain matters, usually F-related.

 

[substitute]

ahhahahahaa, shall i give my entp friend an hug next time? ahahahahaa

they'd probably die of surprise. I know I would if my ENTJ's hugged me. Mind you, they'd be just as surprised if I hugged them. Or anyone, come to that.

In any case, I'm "complicated" too in certain matters, usually F-related.

yeah, totally. What's wrong with being complicated? Do we all have to be an open book? Some people like a bit of mystery, they like having something to figure out - I know I sure do.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

they'd probably die of surprise. I know I would if my ENTJ's hugged me. Mind you, they'd be just as surprised if I hugged them. Me no touchy-touchy. Me got issues.... lol

You sound complicated. :hi:

Some people function very simply because they focus all their energies on simple, shallow things. Sometimes people will declare themselves complicated when they glimpse deeper inside and find they are baffled by who they are. I agree that every single person is complicated to a degree that they cannot be fully comprehended - at least in terms of the nuance and meaning of every experience. But it doesn't make sense to assume that everyone is equally complicated. Some people do have more things to reconcile, more layers to address, etc.

"I'm complicated" as a declaration to place the responsibility on others for adapting to personal idiosyncracies is a lot different from acknowledging personal complexity by sensing a responsibility to become more self aware.

 

[substitute]

"I'm complicated" as a declaration to place the responsibility on others for adapting to personal idiosyncracies is a lot different from acknowledging personal complexity by sensing a responsibility to become more self aware.

Quite. And damn you for quoting me before I edited! lol

 

[proteanmix]

Also, I have to say regarding this:

I consider myself transparent person, which means I don't try to hide or obscure the mechanics of who I am.

...that you should consider yourself lucky that you're able to feel that way, and try not to judge people if they don't feel they have the luxury of being that way. Some of us have spent a lifetime being punished for who we are, and learned that hiding and obscuring the mechanics of who we are is the only way to survive. For people like me and like Jennifer, perhaps, making ourselves 'transparent' means a heck of a lot of overcoming very ingrained, very real fears based on a lifetime of wretched experience.

This leads to another thing I don't understand.

I grew up in a very average family, and experienced the typical growing pains of my teenage years. This used to happen more often when I was in high school and only occasionally now. I was made to or felt guilty for having such a bland childhood. For example, I'd casually complain about my father and I'd have "you're lucky you have a father!" slung back at me. Or I'd say something about not having to share a room with a sibling, or playing in my backyard, or things like that. It got to the point that I had to be careful to not say anything about my family circumstances because people would think I was bragging or something. I grew up in an area where there are mostly single mothers with many lower-income people, so I understand why these comments were made.

So, for those who didn't experience abuse, neglect, or any other traumatic events, would that make them less "complex" because they didn't have to learn survival mechanisms to cope with these events? Is this really what complexity is?

This reminds me of the quote:

Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

 

[substitute]

This leads to another thing I don't understand.

I grew up in a very average family, and experienced the typical growing pains of my teenage years. This used to happen more often when I was in high school and only occasionally now. I was made to or felt guilty for having such a bland childhood. For example, I'd casually complain about my father and I'd have "you're lucky you have a father!" slung back at me.

Um, I'm not sure... I think you've gone off on one there... I can't see where I've said anything that was to be taken as saying there was anything WRONG with being the way you are, or with being 'transparent', or that you should feel guilty about being able to be so. I meant just what I said - that you should feel grateful for it and simply take care not to judge others too harshly who don't feel able to. You've totally read something into my words that wasn't there, implied judgement and/or sarcasm where none existed. I'm happy for you that you're the way you are, and probably a teeny bit jealous too, but I certainly don't hold it against you and I'm the last person to do the whole "I suffered and so everyone else should, and anyone who hasn't isn't valid as a person" routine. Hell no.

I find it genuinely very bizarre and curious that you use a phrase as strong as "slung back" about this sort of thing. Are you sure it's not actually that you yourself feel guilty about something, but because you know it's irrational perhaps you're angry at yourself for feeling that guilt, so you're judging yourself but attributing the judgement to others?

 

[proteanmix]

I'm not upset! What you said just lead me to another train of thought.

Um, I'm not sure... I think you've gone off on one there... I can't see where I've said anything that was to be taken as saying there was anything WRONG with being the way you are, or with being 'transparent', or that you should feel guilty about being able to be so. I meant just what I said - that you should feel grateful for it and simply take care not to judge others too harshly who don't feel able to. You've totally read something into my words that wasn't there, implied judgement and/or sarcasm where none existed. I'm happy for you that you're the way you are, and probably a teeny bit jealous too, but I certainly don't hold it against you and I'm the last person to do the whole "I suffered and so everyone else should, and anyone who hasn't isn't valid as a person" routine. Hell no.

I find it genuinely very bizarre and curious that you use a phrase as strong as "slung back" about this sort of thing. Are you sure it's not actually that you yourself feel guilty about something, but because you know it's irrational perhaps you're angry at yourself for feeling that guilt, so you're judging yourself but attributing the judgement to others?

Hmmm...like I said, where I'm from this is a touchy topic. I don't doubt that I feel guilty about my upbringing even when I talk about it now. Most people were raised by their mothers or grandmothers. Fathers were around, but a significant portion of my classmates at the times had limited contact. It happened to me more than once, my father would pick up us from school and people would see that and make comments about this or he'd answer the phone and people would ask who that was (so nosy!), stuff like that.

Within the context of the thread, I made that statement because some posters mentioned traumatic childhood events that can lead to more complicated personalities or behaviors. Maybe that wasn't a good contextual example.

 

[substitute]

I'm not upset! What you said just lead me to another train of thought.

OK, then in that case, maybe yeah, maybe that is what complexity is in the sense you seem to be using it. I suppose yeah, if you have to learn pretty early on, and your life hammers it home to you repeatedly, that just being yourself isn't an option (I'm a transsexual in case you didn't know), then you're forced to develop a 'face' that you show to the world simply for acceptance, as your true self is repeatedly proven to be 'unacceptable' and 'invalid'. Over theyears you learn to develop many 'layers' to hide yourself under, for protection, while you select/create layers to deal with the current situation, since dealing with it authentically, transparently and as yourself isn't an option. You still have to live with yourself though, so you create yet more layers and bury yourself yet deeper, in order to square all the layers with each other whilst still maintaining a sense of your own identity and integrity. I guess that's how one becomes 'complex'.

I have found that most people I've met who have 'uncomplicated' pasts tend to be quite peaceful people, open books, often wear their hearts on their sleeves and they're very warm and genuine. It's wonderful - they're basically well adjusted people, and it's a testament to stability and loving parents being what's needed to raise content, happy citizens! lol The only slight downside that I can see with it is that in reality not everyone has that good fortune, meaning that the ones who do can often find it difficult to understand what the world looks like from a bleaker point of reference/experience, and might inadvertently find themselves harshly judging people due to traits whose sources are simply, currently, beyond that person's comprehension.

It makes it rather difficult for the screwed up person to be helped - in a way it creates a cycle whereby the 'complex' person is continually 'judged' and disapproved of for 'failing' to open up, and yet again their very person, their very way of being is being attacked, invalidated, making it even harder for them to open up than before. This is seen as a flaw in their character by the open one, or a personal slight, thereby forcing the one who's just petrified of opening up for fear of the vulnerability it entails, to create another 'layer' as a way of preserving who they are whilst at the same time at least appearing to give the 'transparent one' what they want (get them off their back).

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I'm a complicated man and no one understands me but my woman.

 

[Recluse]

I agree with the Layers Theory. There are uncomplicated people, but they consist primarily of those who grew up in sheltered environments. For the rest of us, life has a way of complicating things.

Brings to mind Dorian Grey in "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen," when he miraculously fails to die after getting shot full of bullets and is then asked by his attacker, "Who are you?" His reply: "I'm complicated."

 

[ygolo]

So, for those who didn't experience abuse, neglect, or any other traumatic events, would that make them less "complex" because they didn't have to learn survival mechanisms to cope with these events? Is this really what complexity is?

I think that even families in complex situations can be fairly happy. And sometimes things can seem simple on the outside when they are complex on the inside. Most of my early life, my father was in a different country or a different state, simply because he was trying to build a better life for all of us.

Psychologically speaking, I bear a lot of the traits of someone who grew up without a father, but I don't blame him one bit. We wouldn't have gotten to move to the U.S. and enjoy the life and opportunities that offers if he hadn't struggled to get started. As I get older, I can appreciate more the effort he was making for us. It is simply hard to live life alone (I can imagine even harder to leave wife and kids behind to do that).

As for survival mechanisms, in a way, yes, your trials and tribulations are a test of character, and one can be allowed to be fairly "simple" if that opportunity is afforded to them.

In this regard, it is also important to realize that internal circumstances can have just as much an effect as external ones. You are likely to have a lot of trouble in school if you are dyslexic and no one knew, or had autism and no one knew, or any number of learning differences that made you ill suited for the environments you found yourself in. In a way, internal circumstances are worse because you can't tell people that you are having a harder time than the average person and successfully receive help, usually. Most people are too busy with their own stuff to care.

IMO, most people don't appreciate anyone trying to equate or subsume the pain they went through based on someone else's experience. Certainly there are starving children out there, and there are people worse off than most others. But that does not make things hurt less.