User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 44

  1. #21
    Senior Member snegledmaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Socionics
    SLI
    Posts
    145

    Default

    When people say that to me I see it as an insult. It's like a polite way to say to someone that their actions make no sense.

  2. #22
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca View Post
    When people say that to me I see it as an insult. It's like a polite way to say to someone that their actions make no sense.
    If I say it I don't mean anything like that at all. I just mean that they do make sense from my point of view, and that I can explain them, but that it'd take a long time and be boring/annoying/time consuming to the other person and not really worth all the effort in any case, since "understanding me" isn't something I consider is or should be high on their list of priorities when it comes to apportioning brain calories or time.

    More usually though I'll say instead, but meaning the same thing, "I know it sounds funny but honestly, I know what I mean, trust me. I could bore you to death with an explanation but if you bear with me and trust me you'll see, it'll pan out and it'll all be clear."

    But equally I could be said to mean something like "I'm not worth the effort and time, honestly." Perhaps I'm trying to put them off squandering their time on me.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #23
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    If you're in a conversation with another person and you end up saying "I'm complicated" then from my experience the conversation was already moving in a direction where the other person is willing to hear the reasons for you (general you) being a complicated person. I still think it's a cop out.

    As for the sheltered life leading to less complication (which I'm still not sure what it means), I know personally that although I lead a rather mundane life, I certainly was not sheltered growing up and I don't try to live in an ivory tower now.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #24
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    If you're in a conversation with another person and you end up saying "I'm complicated" then from my experience the conversation was already moving in a direction where the other person is willing to hear the reasons for you (general you) being a complicated person. I still think it's a cop out.
    It's not a cop out. It's a (however misguided or mistaken) attempt to sorta save 'you' from 'me'.

    What goes on in my head is probably something like "Oh no, they're trying to dig into my personal life, they're probing into areas that are very intensely private for me and which I don't feel comfortable sharing because I'm not very sure of them myself, so it's difficult to talk about it without saying something stupid. They might think they want to know me now, but I know how this always goes - they always regret asking, and I always regret telling them, and they end up thinking I'm crazy - hell why wouldn't they? I am crazy!"

    There's an element in it of not wanting someone to know me because I'm very insecure and quite sure that I'm not worth knowing and that if someone knows the real, inner me, they'll hate me or lose interest in me when they know how odd I am.

    In other words, it's totally not about my estimation of the other person, it's more about my own low sense of self-worth, not being able to believe (due to being told it repeatedly through all my life) that anyone could really, genuinely like me for who I am or be interested in the real me, and that sometimes really good, really kind and great people give me a chance, but I feel guilty about taking up this good person's time that could be put to so much better use than talking about a waste of space like me.

    As for the sheltered life leading to less complication (which I'm still not sure what it means), I know personally that although I lead a rather mundane life, I certainly was not sheltered growing up and I don't try to live in an ivory tower now.
    I couldn't possibly comment on that. Not only do I not know you well enough to have any thoughts on it, but even if I did, I'm not a judgemental person. I take people as I find them and accept them for who they are, I've no problem with who anyone is.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  5. #25
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    It's not a cop out. It's a (however misguided or mistaken) attempt to sorta save 'you' from 'me'.

    What goes on in my head is probably something like "Oh no, they're trying to dig into my personal life, they're probing into areas that are very intensely private for me and which I don't feel comfortable sharing because I'm not very sure of them myself, so it's difficult to talk about it without saying something stupid. They might think they want to know me now, but I know how this always goes - they always regret asking, and I always regret telling them, and they end up thinking I'm crazy - hell why wouldn't they? I am crazy!"

    There's an element in it of not wanting someone to know me because I'm very insecure and quite sure that I'm not worth knowing and that if someone knows the real, inner me, they'll hate me or lose interest in me when they know how odd I am.

    In other words, it's totally not about my estimation of the other person, it's more about my own low sense of self-worth, not being able to believe (due to being told it repeatedly through all my life) that anyone could really, genuinely like me for who I am or be interested in the real me, and that sometimes really good, really kind and great people give me a chance, but I feel guilty about taking up this good person's time that could be put to so much better use than talking about a waste of space like me.
    Well if that's the case, then I'd think just say that or some abbreviated version instead of saying I'm complicated. I'd respect your wishes and wait until you were ready to say more or tell you that I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want to know. I understand that it's a way of protecting yourself because of past traumas and hurts and that level of self-disclosure requires a lot of trust in the other person.

    I also understand the feeling of not wanting to unload on someone because you're not sure of their capacity to be sympathetic and non-judgmental. For all you know, you could bare your soul and they'd carry it back to others as fuel for the gossip mill. Why put yourself through that? I definitely see the reason for your reticence.

    But I also think you should let the other person decide also. You're kind of taking the decision away from them. If you do choose to reveal yourself to them, hiding these things away is doing nothing but making a false presentation and impression of who you are. They'll find out eventually. In my mind, it's wiser to find these things out early, before you've gotten emotionally involved rather than later. But the thing is figuring out who can handle the "real" you.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #26

    Default

    I thought of another reason other than a self-reference version of "It's complicated" for when I might use the phrase.

    Would you rather hear:"You're invading my privacy. Back-off!"

    I think that could be another reason. I usually say "I don't want to talk about it."

    Though I can see using "I'm Complicated." But it leads to more questions not less, so it is not as effective as "I don't want to talk about it."

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #27
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I thought of another reason other than a self-reference version of "It's complicated" for when I might use the phrase.

    Would you rather hear:"You're invading my privacy. Back-off!"

    I think that could be another reason. I usually say "I don't want to talk about it."

    Though I can see using "I'm Complicated." But it leads to more questions not less, so it is not as effective as "I don't want to talk about it."
    The best thing for me to hear is "This is a sensitive subject for me and I'm not sure if I'm ready to open up about it yet," or something to that effect. No need to be rude.

    I will admit, I have a tendency to ask invasive questions. They're out of my mouth before I realize it and I have to disclaim what I say by, "If you don't want to talk about it, it's OK." But depending on the relationship and if the topic of discussion is causing trouble, I do hope (expect?) that the "complicated" person will be ready to talk at some point.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #28
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I do hope (expect?) that the "complicated" person will be ready to talk at some point.
    They might be, but not necessarily to you. And it's often easier to actually 'come out' so to speak, to a total stranger than to someone I know well. Several theories as to why that is, but I can't say for certain.

    Well if that's the case, then I'd think just say that or some abbreviated version instead of saying I'm complicated. I'd respect your wishes and wait until you were ready to say more or tell you that I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want to know.
    But you'd be surprised perhaps, to learn that most other people wouldn't respect my wishes, and how can I know whether you will until it's too late? You don't seem to see the catch-22 - you're asking me to use trust to overcome the fact that I have a problem with trust!

    I also understand the feeling of not wanting to unload on someone because you're not sure of their capacity to be sympathetic and non-judgmental.
    No, it's not their capacity to be sympathetic, it's their capacity to like someone as screwed up as me! lol

    But I also think you should let the other person decide also. You're kind of taking the decision away from them.
    But why should it be their decision? Isn't it surely the one thing I do have the right to maintain as solely my decision: who knows what about me and how much I choose to share, when and with whom? See that's the problem sometimes - I get angry because I see the other person as thinking they have some kind of god-given right, or that I have some moral obligation to tell them this stuff that's totally private and none of their business really. And I wonder why the hell they want to know anyway - I don't go around prying and asking people personal questions, or pushing people to 'reveal' things when they're not ready, or putting people in positions where they have to feel like they're the nasty, rude, cagey one for saying they dont want to talk about something, so why do others do it to me? Why can't people just leave others alone and let them decide for themselves how much of themselves they want to share, and live with the consequences?

    making a false presentation and impression of who you are.
    Which is kind of the idea...

    They'll find out eventually.
    Doubtless. But that's not the main concern. The main idea isn't to not let them find out that you're not what they think you are, but to make sure they don't find out what you actually are. And for people who live peripatetic lives, that's quite an easy one to achieve, since nobody really gets time to figure out who you really are. No matter how much they may dislike the facade or the fact that you put it on, the thinking is driven by insecurity and is therefore irrational - they won't dislike it as much as they would the real me. Even if the real me isn't something really that bad - that's the point of insecurity: you think you're a worthless piece of shit, even if you know in your rational mind that it's not true, and are convinced that everyone else thinks so too - the only way to prevent that and maintain any kind of friendship or social life, and avoid rejection, is to not let anyone get close.

    Just occasionally there's the odd person that everything just 'clicks' with, and I don't need to explain anything at all, they just seem to 'get' me without trying. They're rarely Feelers though, for me - almost always ENTJ's (except one INFP). Part of being a Thinker is that you don't need everyone to like you, or to like everyone. As long as you have your 'select few', whether those on the peripheries feel 'connected' to you is a matter of total indifference, as is what they think of you for your apparent aloofness. When I meet someone I can usually tell right off whether we're going to click or not, and if not, why would I waste my time just to make them feel fuzzy and warm and empathic inside?

    There is also the more simple motivation for not opening up when you're a complicated person - the explanation would be very long, and entail me talking about myself for a long time - all the conversation turning to being "about me". For an ENTP, for whom arrogance and narcissism are major flaws and risks, I don't like to spend so much of my energy resisting those flaws, only to sink right into them again, thereby increasing my self-loathing, every time some well-intentioned ENFJ decides it's probing time, and their overactive Fe refuses to comprehend that someone just isn't interested in 'bonding' or 'sharing' and respect that they have reasons of their own, without feeling the need to speculate as to, and 'judge' those reasons!

    You see? Complicated
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  9. #29
    Morlock Rhu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    Pfft
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Hah. It does mean pretty much nothing. I could redefine this statement in a number of ways:

    Belittling - "My motivations are complex and beyond your feeble imaginings, mortal. Do not question me, for I will do what I will and you will stand aside." Dismissive, selfish, slightly cruel. Questions seem to form a constant buzz of minor irritation in this person who is always right. Sadly, the lack of inclination or ability to teach is not within the purview of their greatness.

    Misdirecting - "I'm complicated," could mean nothing of the sort. The subject could be completely transparent in their motivations and is frightened by some piece of insight. It could be some sort of reflexive an unconcious defense of their self-concept, or it could be a sort of machination in order to get you to question yourself.

    Lack of self awareness - "Hell, I don't even understand what I'm doing half the time." Could indicate someone whose life is determined by rolling the dice, or that they are listening to quiet whispers of intuition from somewhere deep within the recesses of their mind.

    Insufficient time/trust - "This is a really long, deeply personal conversation that I really don't want to have right now." It's a cop-out, but a fairly honest one.

    Invitation - "This is a really long, deeply personal conversation that you may not want to have right now." Oh, they want to talk, but you're going to have to reach into their guts and pull that burning thing out of them, no matter how much it burns or how they wriggle and squeal. That, or it'll just flow out, but they want to be sure that you're ready to get into it, first.



    Even if I were a complicated/complex person--in spite of regular accusations, I personally don't think I am; my motivations seem pretty straightforward to me--I would never bother to say something like that. One thing that all my interpretations have in common is that it places the utterer in a passive role, and sucks all the life out of a conversation.

  10. #30
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    From my experience I think telling someone "I'm complicated" is usually a presumptuous thing to say. Or even pompous. Like saying "I'm special. I'm different from everyone else. I'm so special and so different that a normal boring unspecial person such as yourself could NEVER hope to understand me. So I'm not even going to bother. You're not worth it and that's how complicated I am".

    It sounds really high school to me, which is fine if you are still in adolescence because when you are in adolescence you are supposed to be basically emerging from your consciousness coccoon and realizing yourself and the world around you.

    But, yes EVERYONE is complicated. Everyone is unique, different, special, etc. in their own individual, unique, different, special way. Even people who are direct and transparent about their immediate feelings and desires and seem like such simple people have complicated non-straight line idiosyncracies. That's why being human is so fun.

    So in my POV it's unnecessary to say "I'm complicated" unless you are trying to make it a point to make it known you think you are different from everyone else and normal people can't understand you. Which again, is why I think it usually smacks of some kind of self-importance.

    I agree with another poster. "it's complicated" referring to a situation I can underestand. Meaning it's too much trouble or takes too much time than you care to spend to get into it. Or is a caveat in case a person wants to explore further.

    But generally I've found "I'm complicated" and situationally "it's complicated" to be conversation enders. As in the person saying it is trying to stem the conversation.

    Edit:
    And I agree that in regards to a specific conversation or topic "I'm complicated" can really mean "it's complicated" in which case I agree with most of Rhu's explanations above.
    Last edited by CzeCze; 10-31-2007 at 06:35 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. Quotes to Motivate You to *Get To Work*
    By Usehername in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 09-21-2014, 12:36 PM
  2. Colorful Sayings/Quotes
    By ladypinkington in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 05-10-2010, 06:28 PM
  3. Words of Wisdom, Inspiring Quotes, etc
    By rivercrow in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 11-21-2008, 06:39 PM
  4. [MBTItm] Quote on Intution
    By heart in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-15-2007, 01:28 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO