User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 33

  1. #11
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Yup, the inner world of an INTJ is very different from the inner world of an INTP.

    Although, we could say that the ENTP on the outside looks much like the INTP, yet because he doesnt have much of an inner world he has little in common with the INTP. So, someone who lives in a similar terrain as we do has more in common with us than someone who lives in a different world altogether.

    I'm thinking that the E/I discrepancy, is almost as salient as the N/S. All of those conceptualizations that INTPs do for the sake of their inner world would be meaningless to an ENTP because they have no empirical grounding or application to the real world. INTJs also like to have empirical grounding more than INTPs, and as TJs want for ideas to have practical applications, yet because they are introverts--they too, just like INTPs will do things for the sake of the inner world along. The difference here is, INTPs do it for the sake of their inner purpose (Ti), and INTJs for the sake of their inner vision.
    I still disagree.

    I think from the outside the INTP and the INTJ look similar. It is only when you really look at them you notice how different they think. The ENTP looks nothing like the INTP from a distance, but that Ti is backing up the wild Ne on the interior.

  2. #12
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I still disagree.

    I think from the outside the INTP and the INTJ look similar. It is only when you really look at them you notice how different they think. The ENTP looks nothing like the INTP from a distance, but that Ti is backing up the wild Ne on the interior.
    Ah, I see how INTs look similar on the outside because of their introversion, (A trait the ENTP lacks despite being intuitive and analytical), yet again, I am inclined to think that because the INTJ focuses more on the inner world than the outer, they have more in common with the INTPs than the ENTP--a type that focuses primarily on the outer world.

    (I am thinking the inner world of an ENTP would look more like that of the INTJ because of the dominant Intuition. When an ENTP introverts, their Ti will be bending their Ne inwards producing the Ni effect. This is very different from the INP, judgment (as opposed to intuition) oriented inner world).

    So, to cut my story short in crude terms, INTJs are more like INTPs because they have an inner world (thats different from that of INTPs), but at least they have an inner world whilst ENTPs dont. (This is hyperbole to better illustrate the point)
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #13
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Yes, both the INTJs and INTPs have interior worlds, but they are arranged very differently.

    An ENTP does have one too. Maybe not as rich as the INTP, but similar.

  4. #14
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Since I focused on my Ne when younger, I tended to again be into the "breadth" of things more than the single-minded depth that marks some INTPs. But then I would always feel guilty... like I should be devoting more time/energy to in-depth learning on anything and everything I cared to examine.
    That describes me to a "T" (where the hell did that expression come from, anyway?). What's worse, I always hate for others to think I am smarter/more knowledgable than I think I really am, so I always feel the need to limit their expectations by saying that the sum of my knowledge is a mile wide and an inch deep.

  5. #15
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Yup, the inner world of an INTJ is very different from the inner world of an INTP.

    Although, we could say that the ENTP on the outside looks much like the INTP, yet because he doesnt have much of an inner world he has little in common with the INTP. So, someone who lives in a similar terrain as we do has more in common with us than someone who lives in a different world altogether.

    I'm thinking that the E/I discrepancy, is almost as salient as the N/S. All of those conceptualizations that INTPs do for the sake of their inner world would be meaningless to an ENTP because they have no empirical grounding or application to the real world. INTJs also like to have empirical grounding more than INTPs, and as TJs want for ideas to have practical applications, yet because they are introverts--they too, just like INTPs will do things for the sake of the inner world along. The difference here is, INTPs do it for the sake of their inner purpose (Ti), and INTJs for the sake of their inner vision.
    All of your posts seem to be describing unbalanced neurotic versions of both INTP and ENTP. You describe and INTP as someone who can't hold a job or even bathe himself because he has no concern for the external world, while the ENTP is some type of sociopath without any moral grounding whatsoever. The E/I discrepancy is only as significant as you say it is when an individual is either an extreme introvert who is afraid to go outside, or an extreme extravert who can't stand to be alone in a quite place for 3 seconds.

    In healthy, mature individuals the divide is not so great. Extraverts can have a rich internal world and introverts can even have a rich external world. Many people are not as neurotically unbalanced as you would have us believe.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  6. #16
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    All of your posts seem to be describing unbalanced neurotic versions of both INTP and ENTP. You describe and INTP as someone who can't hold a job or even bathe himself because he has no concern for the external world, while the ENTP is some type of sociopath without any moral grounding whatsoever. The E/I discrepancy is only as significant as you say it is when an individual is either an extreme introvert who is afraid to go outside, or an extreme extravert who can't stand to be alone in a quite place for 3 seconds.

    In healthy, mature individuals the divide is not so great. Extraverts can have a rich internal world and introverts can even have a rich external world. Many people are not as neurotically unbalanced as you would have us believe.
    It is better to look at neurotic versions of these two types than healthy versions in order to underline the salient differences between the INTP and ENTP. Namely, that of being Ne dominant and Ti dominant. With a neurotic INTP, the dominant Ti function is accentuated most, with a neurotic ENTP, the Ne dominant function is accentuated the most.

    I am not talking about how most NTPs are like, but merely trying to depict the archetypal quiddity of these two temperaments.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  7. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post

    Imagine this, a neurotic INTP obsesses himself over always being honest and competent, yet a neurotic ENTP has little regard for actually being honest and competent but much more for using the image of an honest and competent person he has created for himself to get himself what he wants or to make others impressed with him.
    I don't think neurotic INTPs are driven by honesty, competency definitely, but not necessarily honesty. Also, I don't think unhealthy ENTPs tend to be neurotic, the unhealthy ones tend to have other issues, but it's usually not neuroses (obessive-compulsive, acute anxiety, hysetria etc).

    I get the sense that even many healthy INTPs are slightly neurotic (anxiety issues), which often helps drive them towards competency. The unhealthy INTPs let their neurosis slow down their competency.

  8. #18
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Yes, both the INTJs and INTPs have interior worlds, but they are arranged very differently.

    An ENTP does have one too. Maybe not as rich as the INTP, but similar.
    I am thinking that the inner world of an ENTP is much more like the inner world of an INTJ than an INTP because both have dominant intuition. When an ENTP introverts, their intuition still preceeds their intellect (judging function). So they first want to process their intuitions before making decisions, this is very different from INTPs who often are unable to collect enough information because they are always making decisions internally.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #19
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    I don't think neurotic INTPs are driven by honesty, competency definitely, but not necessarily honesty. Also, I don't think unhealthy ENTPs tend to be neurotic, the unhealthy ones tend to have other issues, but it's usually not neuroses (obessive-compulsive, acute anxiety, hysetria etc).

    I get the sense that even many healthy INTPs are slightly neurotic (anxiety issues), which often helps drive them towards competency. The unhealthy INTPs let their neurosis slow down their competency.
    I have used neurosis in a Jungian sense of the word which means excessive focus on one particular function. Necessarily the dominant one.

    You're correct to point out that 'neurotic' INTPs are not necessarily driven by honesty. Though, I would claim that INTPs who are intellectually inclined(at this point I am referring to those with an intense focus on activities akin to physics and philosophy) are highly likely to value honesty as an entailment of their search for truth. In order to be competent, they'd have to be proficient at their quest for truth, and in order to do that they must be intellectually honest. After this they will likely apply their candid inquiry to almost everything else they do in life which would require for them to be honest. So, again, competence holds primacy over honesty because honesty is often, though not always is an entailment of the quest for competence.

    Correct, 'neurotic' ENTPs are less likely to be plagued by anxiety problems than 'neurotic' INTPs. It is closer to the other way around. The salient dilemma for the off-balance ENTP is an intensely active Extroverted Perceiving function which prevents them from being serious enough to make sound decisions. Yet, the INTP, on the other hand would be too serious, as their perceiving function, the one that allows for us to take a leisurely approach to the world will be difficult to access.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #20
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    This 'superficiality' of ENTP's knowledge-seeking is something that I must've missed in the 'how to be ENTP' handbook, cos last time I checked, people didn't get PhD's with only superficial knowledge.

    As an ENTP I see every experience as a perceiving exercise - by just going along, doing what I do and without always deliberately setting out to learn something, I simply absorb everything I experience, or what I take from it - its essence, its significance and potential - and then it just sits there in the subconscious, ready to be pulled out and used as an ingredient in a cocktail of actions at some future time, that that's just what the doctor ordered in some future situation.

    Probably most of the stuff I know, I don't even know I know - until it's called on, then I sort of 'realise' that I know it. If asked in a trivia, Q&A session, I probably wouldn't appear to know, because the 'trigger' for using it hasn't come - I don't (contrary to popular belief) care that much about impressing people, so answering some quiz doesn't register as an occasion to raid the knowledge bank. But if the trigger comes, out comes the knowledge as naturally as breathing.

    But I have always been an avid reader, though my approach to book reading is different from my INTP friend Jim. He reads in order to understand the world, whereas I live in the world, interact with it and experiment with it in order to understand it, and I read more out of sheer curiosity. I don't believe the world can be understood from books, though of course they help.

    But for me, once I have a piece of knowledge, the idea is to go and use it - test it, experiment with it, refine it in the crucible of experience, and often when you do that, you learn everything it would've taken you a month to read in that big volume on the shelf in the space of a few hours - plus other stuff that the author of the book didn't notice/experience/write about. But sometimes I return from my experiments to read more, saying to myself, "Right, okay, so that worked - what's next?"

    Jim puts his knowledge from books somewhere inside himself and seems to be building some vast pattern inside his head, a blueprint of some kind that only he can see and only he knows what it's for (though sometimes I wonder if even he does). Presumably he's trying to 'arm' or 'equip' himself for something, but I don't know what, considering that he rarely actually experiences anything because he rarely leaves his room, the library or his own company!!

    If you imagine the sum of mine and Jim's knowledge and where it came from as a chart, then the bars for us both are probably about the same size, but.... I'm A on the line below, while Jim's B.



    Experience------------------------A----------------B-------------theory
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

Similar Threads

  1. low confidence and aware of it
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 07-29-2008, 10:35 PM
  2. Introverts and amount of time spent alone
    By Leysing in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 07-12-2008, 09:02 PM
  3. [MBTItm] NFs and (lack of) sense of direction
    By WobblyStilettos in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 04-24-2008, 10:48 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO