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  1. #31
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's interesting that we are told that the, "Schizophrenic customer is making me nervous...". But we are not told how I am making the schizophrenic customer feel.
    No it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    She should be banned from the coffee shop. For your safety, the other patrons safety, and her own safety --clearly, it's an environment that prompts her to have "a bad spell."
    Why hasn't this been done already? Why is the owner allowing someone who attacks customers back in? :confused: Is there any protection for staff and customers?
    It's all fun and games until the voices tell Betsy to take a knife to a few people.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  2. #32
    Senior Member Willfrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The mentally ill were kicked out of their refuge, the asylum, onto the streets as a cost cutting measure.

    They were abandoned on the streets in an intensely conformist population.

    The conformists hate the mentally ill because they can't conform and punish them whenever they can.

    Perhaps the greatest emotional cruelty inflicted on the mentally ill is social exclusion.

    And if the mentally ill object to their social exclusion, the police are soon called.

    And naturally the mentally ill are blamed for their own condition.

    It's interesting that the form bullying takes among women is social exclusion - the very same form that is used to bully the mentally ill.

    And social exclusion is immediately painful and does long term damage.

    So the mentally ill have been kicked out of their asylums onto the streets among an emotionally cruel population - all to save the State the cost of caring for them.
    Is it drafty up there on your soapbox?

    Schizophrenia is a disorder of the brain. The afflicted don't function normally and in some cases there is little that can be done. They are ostracized by society because the are, bluntly, insane. They are separated from people either by their own volition or because they act in an unacceptable manner among people and must be separated for their own safety or the safety of others. Ultimately the scope of their care falls in the hands of their family and their ability to care for their own, as you can not expect the government to swoop in and solve all your problems.

    In the case of the OP this woman needs to be separated, medicated, and in in therapy of some sort if she ever hopes to be a normal, healthy 'conformist'. Why are you painting this person to be a victim of society?
    ...Then I ducked my head and the lights went out, and two guns blazed in the dark;
    And a woman screamed, and the lights went up, and two men lay stiff and stark...

  3. #33
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    This sounds like an odd suggestion-perhaps have a special table/bench out front that you have just for her to sit at.

    It doesnt sound like she is always violent, but that she had a few bad spells. Triage the situation. If she seems to be getting out of hand, get her a muffin and juice and say Betsy lets go have you out front as it is cooler out there and less crowded. Here is your special muffin....

    This is totally counter to any business goal you might have, but I am with victor on this on some level. She is a member of the human family who has been dumped out on her own and our social system doesnt take responsibility for helping her.

    My ex worked in a day center for the mentally ill and severely disabled for about five years. Often these folks want nothing more than to try in some fashion to contribute to society. They want to work, they want to be included, even if in a wierd way.

    Perhaps the question is deeper-are we really obligated to included those in our localized society who are very flawed through no choice of thier own? Does that mena we just keep them from self harm or do we include them in our societal rituals?

  4. #34
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willfrey View Post
    Is it drafty up there on your soapbox?

    Schizophrenia is a disorder of the brain. The afflicted don't function normally and in some cases there is little that can be done. They are ostracized by society because the are, bluntly, insane. They are separated from people either by their own volition or because they act in an unacceptable manner among people and must be separated for their own safety or the safety of others. Ultimately the scope of their care falls in the hands of their family and their ability to care for their own, as you can not expect the government to swoop in and solve all your problems.

    In the case of the OP this woman needs to be separated, medicated, and in in therapy of some sort if she ever hopes to be a normal, healthy 'conformist'. Why are you painting this person to be a victim of society?
    I agree with the majority of what you said but the truth is schizophrenics and bipolar people (most severe forms of mental illness) are often victims of society. In the sense that the medication needed to become "stable" can cost a lot of money! In the U.S. if you have money then health care is fine. Otherwise you are fucked.

    Let me give you a personal example: I am bipolar. I was diagnosed at 21 and have been stable and on meds for nine years. My meds per month are 300 dollars. My doctor visit per every three months is 75 dollars. Now think about your own finances...could you afford this addition to your expenses? Maybe. But most people can't. I couldn't. I had to choose between living at home and staying stable. But what if I didn't have a mother who was there for me? Some people don't have family to help them out or the family just doesn't have the means or time. (Taking care of a severe schizophrenic requires a lot of time!). When you think about things this way, it's easy to see why there are so many homeless that are also suffering from the effects of schizophrenia and bipolar illness.

    So, I do believe that there needs to be some sort of social reform with our health care system to care for these cases. But it's really important to look beyond your own experiences and put yourself in someone else's shoes. I do believe that a mature, educated society can have the best of both worlds. There's no reason why society can't have individual free choice and build a system that helps those that can't help themselves.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  5. #35
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    I agree with the majority of what you said but the truth is schizophrenics and bipolar people (most severe forms of mental illness) are often victims of society.In the sense that the medication needed to become "stable" can cost a lot of money! In the U.S. if you have money then health care is fine. Otherwise you are fucked.
    Being fucked = you're a victim of society? Certainly it is unfortunate and calls for a solution but how does this create victims of society (rather than of bad biochemistry) out of the mentally unstable.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  6. #36
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    So, I do believe that there needs to be some sort of social reform with our health care system to care for these cases. But it's really important to look beyond your own experiences and put yourself in someone else's shoes. I do believe that a mature, educated society can have the best of both worlds. There's no reason why society can't have individual free choice and build a system that helps those that can't help themselves.
    Absolutely YES to the above. And I do believe that people who are "different" should be included in the social fabric, not just tolerated.

    I want to reitierate that the majority of people diagnosed with schizophrenia are NOT violent. I work in close contact with people on forensic and civil wards and have never been attacked, nor threatened. To be honest, I felt more threatened from staff questioning my presence (getting in my face) as a government mandated advocate to monitor abuse and neglect of patients.

    Many people with the diagnosis are functioning well, contributing in professions and sharing their knowledge and perspective with the world. Other people with the diagnosis are struggling on a daily basis to understand their "reality" and have legitimate reasons not to take medication. Psychotropic meds. have serious, life-long effects many times resulting in early death...taking medications can make things far worse for some, but some people will take them anyway to try to escape their inner world.

    I just appreciate that Jewelchild is asking questions and not automatically making a decision that is based solely in fear.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  7. #37
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    I want to reitierate that the majority of people diagnosed with schizophrenia are NOT violent.
    But "Betsy" is.
    I just appreciate that Jewelchild is asking questions and not automatically making a decision that is based solely in fear.
    See above.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  8. #38
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Being fucked = you're a victim of society? Certainly it is unfortunate and calls for a solution but how does this create victims of society (rather than of bad biochemistry) out of the mentally unstable.
    Being fucked + extenuating circumstances CAN = "victim of society" My meaning of that term means that this chemical imbalance plus lack of universal health care can and does lead these people to become homeless. Thus being ignored by society.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  9. #39
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    ok. Victimize = ignore; fail to provide with free service.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  10. #40
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    ok. Victimize = ignore; fail to provide with free service.
    fail to provide with affordable service
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

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