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  1. #21
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Illness is characterised by a lesion or an infectious agent. And as far as we know there is no lesion or infectious agent in schizophrenia.

    What I observe is that the reason many are so emotionally cruet to those who are schizophrenc is because schizophrenics don't conform.

    And usually this is expressed in bad faith by accusing the schizophrenic person to being violent or might be violent.

    But in fact it is the fear of non-confomity rather than the fear of violence.

    But really, accusing the schizophrenic of violence is a projection of the violent desires of the conformist against the non-conformist.

    This is conclusively proved in this country for when the police are called to control a schizophrenic person, they have a bad habit of shooting them.

    And this is what the conformists want - they want to shoot the schizophrenic - and the police do the job for them.

    It's called murder by police. And guess what - it's all the schizophrenics fault.

  2. #22
    Senior Member SurlyAdam's Avatar
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    I deal with crazy (literally) people just about every day. Like anyone, they want to feel understood. Unlike most people however, they act very irrational and become outwardly expressive in their emotions if they feel misunderstood. As long as you acknowledge them and pay attention, you can usually lead them down another path of thought.

    INFPs have a natural desire to understand people, so we probably become less confused and judgmental when someone acts oddly. This however should probably be a lesson about times in life when you cannot help and the best course of action is to simply remove yourself from the situation. Not everyone can be helped, and many cannot be trusted.

    If a person cannot act civilized, they have no place in society, as they may begin cutting of heads of the unsuspecting.

    It's truly tragic when someone mentally ill is shot by the police. But police don't go around shooting people simply because those people are crazy. They shoot people who are a threat to other people. If one person is about to harm another, whether that person's thought process is rational or not becomes irrelevant.

  3. #23
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    I agree with getting her trespassed from the shop by police. This should be fairly easy to do. However, it will have to be enforced. So, you will likely have another episode if she comes in to the shop and the police have to be called to enforce the trespass.

    Schizophrenia is the most severe form of mental illness. When unmedicated they can't be "reasoned" with. You may be able to keep them somewhat calm by your manner and tone of voice but they are pretty unpredictable.

    It's sad because more than likely, Betsy will be in and out of mental hospitals for her entire life. She will be medicated then released then Betsy will go off her meds (very common with bipolar and schizophrenics) and the cycle continues.

    Unfortunately, I don't think there's an "easy" way out of dealing with the negative sides of Betsy. So, don't feel guilty about doing what you have to do. Regardless of mental illness the public needs to be protected from danger and if she poses a physical threat then you have to do what it takes to protect your other patrons. Good luck to you!
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  4. #24
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Regardless of mental illness the public needs to be protected from danger and if she poses a physical threat then you have to do what it takes to protect your other patrons.!

    I would think most of you could benefit from such a vacation.

  5. #25
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Grind up some antipsychotics and put them in her coffee!

    That's win-win.

  6. #26
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    It's interesting that we are told that the, "Schizophrenic customer is making me nervous...". But we are not told how I am making the schizophrenic customer feel.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willfrey View Post
    My brother at his worst would hear voices through radio and TV static (straight out of a movie) but after he was medicated and on therapy I can see no real symptons save extreme social anxiety which sadly seems to be getting worse.
    I'm sorry. That must be difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwar View Post
    If she keeps coming to the shop she'll scare away customers, as I do with my 5 o clock shadow and unkempt INTP hair.
    The 5 o clock shadow and unkempt hair might be what's accidentally attracting all the ladies, Alwar. Something to consider. I'm secretly a big fan of Albert Einstein hair, myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    What I observe is that the reason many are so emotionally cruet to those who are schizophrenc is because schizophrenics don't conform.
    Victor, I've always been very friendly and accommodating to Betsy, and so have all the other customers. She's a very unique individual with plenty of interesting things to say, and occasionally she annoys people, but nobody wants to see her shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlyAdam View Post
    INFPs have a natural desire to understand people, so we probably become less confused and judgmental when someone acts oddly. This however should probably be a lesson about times in life when you cannot help and the best course of action is to simply remove yourself from the situation. Not everyone can be helped, and many cannot be trusted.
    Thank you for posting the above. I do have a pattern of trying to help people even when there is nothing I can do, and it's good to be reminded that certain situations require backing off.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  8. #28
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I skimmed over the thread so excuse if I'm repeating.

    When I was a teen I worked in a coffee shop in Union Station in downtown DC. Lots of homeless people congregate there. I was very afraid for the first few months I worked, I too would work alone at some points during my shift (never closed alone) and I had mentally ill men hitting on me and not leaving the store.

    Some of that was probably partially my fault because I'd give them the food we were going to throw out at the end of the day anyway, but I think this also spared me a little bit in terms of how crazy they got; very few people bite the hand that feeds them.

    I've also had many mentally ill people sit in very close proximity on the subway. Firstly, don't act anything is abnormal unless they seem violent. The more violently mentally ill get arrested pretty quick. Sometimes ignoring them makes them angry, they're not stupid and most can recognize when they're being ignored and then they act out to make you acknowledge them. I wouldn't try to make eye contact, but if it's made smile and avert your glance, look at your cell phone, pick up a newspaper. I was talkign to someone about this a while ago, about having your public armor around so you can escape people in a crowd. Newspaper, book, cell phone, ipod, any type of distractors you can use when you're in the throngs.

    Here in DC we have so many tourists from Hinterland, USA coming through and they gather their children close to them and start whispering loudly and clucking when a mentally ill person comes near them making a bigger scene then if they were chill about how they go about things.

    Since you're at work and you don't deserve to be subjected to this at your place of employment perhaps the owner of the shop could have security or something like that occasionally swing by?

    I'm not going to lie; I regularly conversate with the mentally ill for my entertainment. If they seem harmless, which is pretty stupid of me...it's not like you can always tell, I just will sit and chit chat with them cause they say some funny ass shit. Yes, some of (well a lot of it is) me is laughing at them and I don't feel bad enough to stop, it seems to me they enjoy it since most people treat them like lepers so I like to think we both win! I get some free weekend entertainment and they get to tell me about the Third Throne Room of God and his Celestial Army that have taken up residence in their shopping cart. Some of the stuff they say is gutbusting. And this is some good material if you're a writer, people are giving this stuff away. Nothing beats the creative mind of a schizophrenic.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's interesting that we are told that the, "Schizophrenic customer is making me nervous...". But we are not told how I am making the schizophrenic customer feel.
    Betsy and I talk and joke around together all the time. She tells me I am a good friend, because I always listen to her. I have never been rude, made fun of her, or done anything to make her feel nervous.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  10. #30
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The mentally ill were kicked out of their refuge, the asylum, onto the streets as a cost cutting measure.

    They were abandoned on the streets in an intensely conformist population.

    The conformists hate the mentally ill because they can't conform and punish them whenever they can.

    Perhaps the greatest emotional cruelty inflicted on the mentally ill is social exclusion.

    And if the mentally ill object to their social exclusion, the police are soon called.

    And naturally the mentally ill are blamed for their own condition.

    It's interesting that the form bullying takes among women is social exclusion - the very same form that is used to bully the mentally ill.

    And social exclusion is immediately painful and does long term damage.

    So the mentally ill have been kicked out of their asylums onto the streets among an emotionally cruel population - all to save the State the cost of caring for them.

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