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  1. #91
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    An illness is caused by a lesion or an infectious agent.

    And as far as I know schizophrenia is not caused by a lesion or an infectious agent. So schizophrenia is not an illness.

    Schizophrenia is called an illness purely for historical reasons.

    At first schizophrenia was called an illness to save schizophrenics from prison. But today schizophenia is called an illness to invalidate the schizophrenic.

    And for the future, the question is not how can we make society safe from schizophrenics, but how can we make society safe for schizophrenics.
    Yes. You are right there.

    Multiple projection. The society is ill.
    There exists six times the average amount of schizophrenia among the very poor.

    It would be cheaper to give the schizophrenics a hand.
    Market economy is not about the real cost of things. It is about the whose cost.
    The who is the idle rich.

    The rich are active. But they do not work.
    They are supported by people who work.
    The police is there for the rich. The rich do not cover the costs for the police, though.
    The rich do not cover any costs.

    Yes, the rich may even pay taxes. That is, some of them occasionally do.
    With stolen money. Stolen money does not belong to the thief.
    It belongs to the owner. The working man.
    Money is the produce of labour.

    The working man would build institutions and hospitals for the schizophrenics. Give them shelter and medicine and food and clean clothes. But he cannot.
    His money is being stolen.

  2. #92
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Betsy? Is that you?
    Less than mediocre. With practice you'll do better.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  3. #93
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    ok, this has gotten boring.
    That tends to happen when you don't have any other valid points to argue.


    Ok Now it's the government's "hindrance" that's the victimization. Is that your 25th redefinition of victimization? If the government is unlawfully stopping people from freely going out to buy the medication, surgery, sex-change, boob-job, etc. they need to feel mentally whole (or terrorizing someone into PTSD), well then . . .

    Yes. That can be used as a definition of "victimization". You are comparing getting medication with sex changes and boob-jobs? It's best to keep on topic. As the whole point of good debate is not to throw apples in with the oranges. Because, after all, one has nothing to do with the other. Obviously.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Put a little note in the bottom of her coffee that says, "They are watching your every move. Meet me at the bus station tonight at 11pm. <Signed>A Friend."
    ROTFL.

  5. #95
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Love the fact that you first initiate it by calling me crazy and then become petulant when someone meets you at your level.
    Um no. You have been very petulant from the beginning. You are simply at a crescendo now. Go back and try to read from the beginning and see who keeps ratcheting it up. And all it does is highlight the emotionality and the lack of basis in legal fact of your many whines.
    Not only that, but you try this dead end and the next and then become very angry at your own silly diversions.
    Even ONE instance of employment discrimination proves my point, they are being victimized (in that aspect). Victimized in EVERY aspect is a very broad term and I've never spoken of that. All it takes is ONE example of an act that shows an example of an obligated agency failing to properly enact said 'power' is a case of victimization towards the 'receipient'. I.e., even JUST employment discrimination proves my case that a person can be a victim of society.
    Not quite. I will keep it really simple for you, because otherwise you will have another episode and supplant your arguments with more caca than ever. You constantly bring up points that you obviously have a very tenuous understanding of and then fail to make the link to show what it is you want to show.

    You mention, for example, the equal protection clause as guaranteeing rights against non-discrimination and then apply it to all and sundry actions by anyone. All it does is limit the state's abridgment of rights that you have. Not ones that you think you should have or that would be nice to have. The state can't pass laws or take actions that take away your given freedoms. The state cannot unlawfully discriminate against you with regard to any of those. This is your right. It is your right to take your case to court if you have been deprived of your right - under ADA or analogous state law.
    However, the state cannot guarantee that there will be no stigma attached to you for whoever you are and whatever you do. It made no such promise, and not fulfilling an unmade promise is not victimization.

    Discrimination by itself is not victimization, as you myopically state. Were that the case everybody would be victimized all the time. Employers may rightfully discriminate between one candidate and the next. You may discriminate between one man (or antipsychotic) and the next. You are not victimized every time there is a discrimination. There is lawful and unlawful discrimination. Some lawful discrimination is unfair, but it is not by that fact victimization unless you broaden the meaning of victimization. Some is bred of stigma, but still legal. Mental health status is not a suspect class. The government is not victimizing you by upholding the law because all it did was grant you equal protection of existing rights under the law.

    If you are discriminated against unlawfully, you are free to exercise your rights to seek legal redress - like everybody else. Were you to claim that the state or fed government targeted you, as an insane person, to disallow purchase of medicine or eligibility to receive other benefits like everybody else, then you could claim victimization. If you were to state that the government is refusing you access to legal aid to enforce your rights under ADA or whatever and this aid is generally available to everyone else, then you could claim victimization. Simply stating that you don't have meds and/or can't get or keep a job/housing/etc. because you are crazy is not an appropriate use of the term victimization.
    You could use victimization creatively (as I said early in the thread) and say that social stigma is the reason you are beset by all these woes, true. E.g. Someone "victimizes" crazy Betsy by not renting to her because he doubts her fitness as a tenant, and rents instead to someone he trusts more. The government can't save you from humanity. Still, what one person calls "victimization" by stigma another would call good sense.
    Last edited by INA; 07-19-2009 at 11:09 AM. Reason: grammar; clarity.
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  6. #96
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    I need 5 rolls of toilet paper to wipe up all the bullshit in this thread.

  7. #97
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Some of the responses to this thread are bizarre. It reminds me of a conversation I had a while ago; a regular at the cafe around the corner, a gentle professorial fellow, had recently been mugged just two blocks from here. And there had been another mugging the night before, that time with a gun. Normally this neighborhood is pretty safe, by Oakland standards, so I was expressing some concern. An acquaintance burst in and (in effect) accused me of being bourgeois and racist, for suddenly being afraid of being mugged now that I live in Oakland.

    Dude. Guy I know, mugged, two fucking blocks from here. On a route I walk every day. Concern is not an unreasonable response. I mean, I'm not paralyzed with fear here. I'm just saying, heck, this is worrisome. What do you expect from me? If you want to get into a discussion about socioeconomic discrimination, go ahead and do that elsewhere. It's no use projecting.

  8. #98
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    Can you ban someone completely from a public place without going to court and all that jazz?
    Have you ever seen this sign:

    "Management reserves the right to refuse service to ANYONE."

    Private ownership is the bomb.

  9. #99
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    Usually the only signs I pay attention to are the ones that say stuff like, "Hippies use back door" ...



    So an owner could just decide not to serve customers who, say, drive blue vehicles, and that would be perfectly legally acceptable? Something about that doesn't seem right.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  10. #100

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    It's a coffee-shop, not big government. A private business doesn't owe you (as an individual) squat. It is the responsibility of the community to support businesses whose practices they support.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

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