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Gender Roles

mortabunt

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This thread is about the decision function in men and women.
Question 1: T women, how does the world treat you compared to F women?
Question 2: F men, how does the world treat you compared to T men?
Question 3: F women, how does the world treat you compared to T women?
Question 4: T men, how does the world treat you compared to F men?
 

Fluffywolf

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Answer 4: In general. Much more carefully. As if I am delicate and breakable. As if I have much to hide from the world. Which is not the case.
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
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Answer 3 - Better, society expects women to be emotional so in this we are well matched lol. On the other hand it must be alot harder for T women because they are seen as bitches for not being emotional enough.
 

Totenkindly

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Answer 3 - Better, society expects women to be emotional so in this we are well matched lol. On the other hand it must be alot harder for T women because they are seen as bitches for not being emotional enough.

Yeah.

I can play the F game enough to do decently, but I always feel cold and bitchy compared to gushy fem-fem women. All the guys seem to go after li'l miss bubbly, and my intellectual approach to things doesn't seem to draw much attention.

Then again, I think I'm taken more seriously at work because of it. (My F friend I think comes off as unfocused and not rational in our field of computer software dev.) ...although i don't feel taken as seriously as a T guy. Meh.
 

ajblaise

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Question 4: T men, how does the world treat you compared to F men?

A little more seriously.
 

the state i am in

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2: i just assume some people think i'm either a. gay b. childish or c. just kinda silly. there's many different sides to the equation, and when i go into Ti mode, F types get a little scared bc i change so drastically. my default face is usually pretty tightly composed, but with people i know well i am much more loose and spontaneous, or at least capable of angling in weird little directions/lines of flight, play lots of games, tease, juggling and doing tricks, keep things interesting, etc. the males usually are shocked that i would actually be a serious person bc it is so antithetical to what serious means to them. the females have a much better sense of this, are much more aware, and view me deeply idealistic but a bit tightly wound and a bit constricted, i would imagine in the Ni or Si dom introverted perceiving sense (which translates to inferior extraverted perceiving and going with teh flow and being very very j at times, wanting that security and hyperlocalized focus to help me feel structured and secure, etc). lotta tripwires on rainy days.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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Answer 4: A) I tend to be level-headed most of the time and that gets me a lot of respect from people.

B) Society kind of expects the ideal man to be some macho, aggressive, alpha-dog type. I think the alpha dog mentality is mostly foolish, but the alpha dogs don't mess with me either. When an alpha-dog messes with me he ends up looking foolish instead, so people tend to give me respect because of that.

In contrast I think a lot of F men realize that society expects them to be either level-headed or an alpha-dog and also they shouldn't take things personally. Since F's are not naturally this way this causes a lot of F men to be insecure about who they are. Some of the F men I've seen try to act extra macho to compensate for their F side, but it's really a facade to hide their insecurity. Well that's my $.02 anyway.
 

Athenian200

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I'm not in the mood to give a coherent answer. Instead, I'll just give you an idea of what I think about gender roles:

istockphoto_6306048-pink-toilet-paper.jpg
istockphoto_6673111-blue-toilet-paper.jpg


Do you get all the implicit humor? ;)
 

the state i am in

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In contrast I think a lot of F men realize that society expects them to be either level-headed or an alpha-dog and also they shouldn't take things personally. Since F's are not naturally this way this causes a lot of F men to be insecure about who they are. Some of the F men I've seen try to act extra macho to compensate for their F side, but it's really a facade to hide their insecurity. Well that's my $.02 anyway.

definitely, if i could be a different type, it would be entp. being really comfortable and in your own skin in the moment helps so much (dom extraverted perceiver). much better at improvising, catching the general flow, having a ton of branching possibilities hit you, and Ti to back it up (which is the best game-playing function, i think). Ti helps a ton bc it takes apart situations very effectively and has the most complex understanding pre-arranged of causality, sees how one thing leads to another better than any other function. it may at times be unpractical, but it's overall grasp is the best of all in terms of recognizing and strategizing. Te would probably just punch you in the face (much more direct).

for us introverted F types, we are not very practiced at handling ourselves in the moment, and holistic type F judgment is slow to detect where the circuit is broken and what is wrong. our method of influencing is mood-based and affective, helping clarify feelings and turn them into a very base rudimentary form of logic that improves communication, discussion, etc. whereas as a dude you're supposed to be a fighter when shit goes wrong. defend honor and attack those in your way. it takes us a while to translate/convert/symbolize experience into the language of our internal introverted perception environment, i think eventually things like zen and effortless mastery and judo are the way in which we navigate ourselves in the external world.
 

Totenkindly

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I'm not in the mood to give a coherent answer. Instead, I'll just give you an idea of what I think about gender roles:

istockphoto_6306048-pink-toilet-paper.jpg
istockphoto_6673111-blue-toilet-paper.jpg


Do you get all the implicit humor? ;)

I guess my response is, "Yeah, it's sh*t, honestly... but we don't get a choice about whether or not to defecate. It's part of human physiology. So how do we deal with it?"
 

Athenian200

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I guess my response is, "Yeah, it's sh*t, honestly... but we don't get a choice about whether or not to defecate. It's part of human physiology. So how do we deal with it?"

I don't know, but there's got to be something better than expecting/demanding all men to be masculine and all women to be feminine. Because that's extremely psychologically/emotionally damaging to the ones that aren't.
 

Lauren Ashley

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I like F men. Some T men (mostly extraverted ones) give me a rough, unrefined vibe that is damaging to my delicate sensibilities.

;)
 

ajblaise

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I don't know, but there's got to be something better than expecting/demanding all men to be masculine and all women to be feminine. Because that's extremely psychologically/emotionally damaging to the ones that aren't.

I imagine it's getting better year after year for F men and T women as society becomes more and more socially liberal and gender roles become more nuanced. So they got that goin for them.
 

Aerithria

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Question 1: T women, how does the world treat you compared to F women?
My views tend to clash a lot with how people 'expect' me to behave. I'm very tomboy-ish, so sometimes people overlook the fact that I am female-bodied and treat my behaviour on its own, but there are a few people who seem to have a problem with my opinions or behaviour. I've tried to do the F thing in the past, but it sounded more like I was mocking F women, which didn't work well either.

I think most of the difference is that I've had to learn restraint that I probably wouldn't have needed to learn if I was a T guy. Which is probably part of the reason why I find socializing so exhausting.

I agree with Athenian on this. Gender roles are very screwed up, and from my perspective they seem to do much more damage than anything else.
 

Synthetic Darkness

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Question 1: T women, how does the world treat you compared to F women?

-------------

Like we aren't as feminine, as if we're more butch because we use logic instead of emotions. Which is why I tend to hide my logic and come across more as a ENFP than as an ENTP. Society has a weird view of both men and women which tends to not only oppress women but men as well, it's really a lose-lose situation which is why I tend to dislike extreme feminists who blame men for everything because they are just as affected by gender stereotyping.
 

Totenkindly

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I don't know, but there's got to be something better than expecting/demanding all men to be masculine and all women to be feminine. Because that's extremely psychologically/emotionally damaging to the ones that aren't.

I don't see it terms of blatant extremes like that -- usually gender expectations and biases are far more nefarious and subtle.
 

the state i am in

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I don't know, but there's got to be something better than expecting/demanding all men to be masculine and all women to be feminine. Because that's extremely psychologically/emotionally damaging to the ones that aren't.

this sounds bad, but just ditch the sensates and find more iNtuitives. pretty much solves the entire problem, in my experience. N types will maybe reject something at first, but given a bit of time, they'll come around.
 

OrangeAppled

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I am not always treated as an "F" woman. Fi and Fe can be totally different creatures. I find I may be treated as a "T" woman actually, until it is discovered that I am quite sensitive. Then people become very gentle with me, to the point where it can feel condescending almost. Then it's all "honey" and "sweetheart" in a soft voice.
 

Queen Kat

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Question 3: F women, how does the world treat you compared to T women?

My F is kind of balanced and I never really show it. But I think we're being treated equally. Where I live I see that T women get as much respect as Fs or even more sometimes.
 

jenocyde

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Growing up as a T woman was hard, but I'm in the groove of it now and it's all good in the hood.

Call me aggressive and I'll just call you a pussy. Whatevs.
 
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