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  1. #21
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I think you phrased it poorly. You're talking about pursuing a relationship. Falling in love =/= pursuing a relationship. You can technically fall in love with someone, but then choose not to do anything about it. You also can't just decide to love someone you're not already drawn to. Basically, falling in love is a reaction, but pursuing it is a choice. Does that make sense?
    I think a lot of people are reading it the way you describe. An emotional/physiological response to someone has little or nothing to do with love in my set of assumptions. Falling in love is a series of choices in the best interest of another person. That's why I phrased it like that - because it requires a series of choices. I think it is interpreted as "getting a crush" which is Hollywood's definition of love. It's also possible to control that based on one's decision to keep thinking about it or to think about something else.

    Edit: I also think the process of being drawn to someone does not have to be entirely unconscious. You notice something they did you admire, and so then you notice a skill. The first impression doesn't have to have a significant emotional impact. It can be a series of information that eventually forms a complete picture of someone you respect or who you think will understand you or reciprocate intimacy. It doesn't have to be mysterious or intensely emotional until a series of decisions eventually define it as love.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You almost talk as if love were an action rather than a feeling...
    That is probably fodder for another thread, but yes, that is exactly what I think it is. I think there was another thread about nonreciprocating love and whether or not it fits the definition of love. Love that involves marriage, a life partner, raising children, etc. is most definitely based on actions and choices. The emotions will run the full gamut in many cases. The sweaty palms and butterflies in the stomach is more about self identity and whether or not oneself will be met with approval by another.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #22
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I think a lot of people are reading it the way you describe. An emotional/physiological response to someone has little or nothing to do with love in my set of assumptions. Falling in love is a series of choices in the best interest of another person. That's why I phrased it like that - because it requires a series of choices. I think it is interpreted as "getting a crush" which is Hollywood's definition of love. It's also possible to control that based on one's decision to keep thinking about it or to think about something else.
    I agree that it can be controlled... but you're using an extremely obscure definition of "falling in love" that no one else shares. You're doing that annoying INTP-ish thing where you take a term and tacitly redefine it to mean what you think it should mean, so people have to guess what you mean.

    Everyone knows that acting on your feelings is a choice, and that not all feelings should be pursued. Most of us just call the initial infatuation "falling in love," and the later series of choices in the best interest of the other person as "being in a relationship." The term "falling in love" isn't used to mean "true love" or "real love," but you tacitly introduced the assumption that that's how it should be used. Honestly, it doesn't even represent an action in most people's minds.

    Sorry for the criticism, but that kind of habit can create communiciation difficulties.

  3. #23
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I agree that it can be controlled... but you're using an extremely obscure definition of "falling in love" that no one else shares. You're doing that annoying INTP-ish thing where you take a term and tacitly redefine it to mean what you think it should mean, so people have to guess what you mean.

    Everyone knows that acting on your feelings is a choice, and that not all feelings should be pursued. Most of us just call the initial infatuation "falling in love," and the later series of choices in the best interest of the other person as "being in a relationship." The term "falling in love" isn't used to mean "true love" or "real love," but you tacitly introduced the assumption that that's how it should be used.

    Sorry for the criticism, but that kind of habit can create communiciation difficulties.
    I can observe what you are saying to make sense in people's responses, so I included an edit. It does amaze me that people place significance on that initial feeling of infatuation, but that probably is the more common idea of "falling in love". The term "falling" also implies a lack of control and is associated with Western cultural assumptions about the process. There can also be a shift in assumptions based on age and experience when discussing that term.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #24
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    question for toonia:

    if someone broke up with a partner for an ex who just came back to town, what would you, for the lack of a better word, classify that as?
    an act where the person gave up everything they currently have in hopes of something that might not even exist

  5. #25
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I can observe what you are saying to make sense in people's responses, so I included an edit. It does amaze me that people place significance on that initial feeling of infatuation, but that probably is the more common idea of "falling in love". The term "falling" also implies a lack of control and is associated with Western cultural assumptions about the process. There can also be a shift in assumptions based on age and experience when discussing that term.
    Yes. I would actually agree with you that "falling in love" isn't love. It has the word "love" in it, but that's merely a coincidence, IMO. As a term I would say it means "infatuation." I would probably say that I can choose whether to love (as a verb) someone or not, but I see "falling in love" as "feeling an amorphous attraction" towards someone.

    I also get the impression that you've developed a certain conceit about your age and experience that made you feel justified in redefining the term in such a way that people would confirm your unconscious bias that they don't know what love means. I admit that I've done similar things before, and have pretty much the same bias towards most people... that's probably why I think I recognize it in you. I may be wrong, though.

  6. #26
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    question for toonia:

    if someone broke up with a partner for an ex who just came back to town, what would you, for the lack of a better word, classify that as?
    an act where the person gave up everything they currently have in hopes of something that might not even exist
    I'm sorry I can't help. I don't know enough about the scenario.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Yes. I would actually agree with you that "falling in love" isn't love. It has the word "love" in it, but that's merely a coincidence, IMO. As a term I would say it means "infatuation." I would probably say that I can choose whether to love (as a verb) someone or not, but I see "falling in love" as "feeling an amorphous attraction" towards someone.

    I also get the impression that you've developed a certain conceit about your age and experience that made you feel justified in redefining the term in such a way that people would confirm your unconscious bias that they don't know what love means.
    I'm sorry you feel that way, Athenian200. I tried to correct the terminology. You can assume whatever you like.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #27
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    You can assume whatever you like.
    That wasn't intended negatively, but you may also assume whatever you like.

  8. #28
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    If we're talking about choosing a relationship, that's altogether different.

    I tend to put a bunch of effort into analyzing the other person, and playing a long game of mental Lego with our respective personalities, to see how we might work together. Then I keep my eye out for any new information that might throw off the model I've been building. The moment it seems like this may not end well, I pull away. What happens from there depends on other factors of our chemistry.

    I'm always open to being proven wrong, but once I decide something just ain't gonna work, mechanically, I'm not going to waste any more energy on it.

    This is regardless of how I might feel about the matter.

  9. #29
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That wasn't intended negatively, but you may also assume whatever you like.
    I regret whatever confusion is happening here and will take extra care to not assume anything. The last part of the post wasn't available when I responded, but it clarifies some of it. I admittedly chose the wrong term, "falling in love" vs. "choosing a partner" and have attempted to correct it. I hope people feel free to edit their responses.

    Edit: I think the definition of that phrase has changed from my generation. It might have been influenced by Francesco Alberoni who was influential from the 1970s through the 1990s and used the term "falling in love" to describe a state in which the individual was receptive to profound life change and joining to a partner in a bond of love. I hadn't actually heard his name before, but I'm thinking that my use of the term would have been consistent with its assumed definitions twenty years ago. Relationship terminology changes faster than anything, I think. I'm not 100% sure of this, but am leaning in that direction.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #30
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure there are some cultural factors at play here, too. In Italy, we only use the word "innamorarsi" (which would translate to falling in love) as something we don't have a lot of control with, and completely separate from starting a relationship.
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