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Thread: Lineon vs. Mudd

  1. #1
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Default Lineon vs. Mudd

    This is a conflict between two parts of myself that I recently looked at from a different perspective.

    I'll call the first mind "Lineon" and the second one "Mudd."

    Lineon: I wish to find a job. I'm going to go through job listings, bus routes, and find out what I can reach that's within walking distance, and sort/compile all of that information into a list of jobs I can apply for. I will then organize that list first in order of travel difficulty, and second in order of projected likelihood of employment. *starts to look through job listings*

    Mudd: Oh my! I'm so nervous. All of that travel stuff looks dreadfully complicated... what if I screw it up and something bad happens? How am I going to deal with the mess of working around my mother's schedule and convincing her to go along with this? Oh, and they all want experience or some ridiculous amount of education. I'm doomed! This is complicated and making me uncomfortable, so I'm going to think about something else.

    Lineon: You're being ridiculous. You're not going to screw it up, the situation is very simple and impossible to screw up if you're paying attention. I already understand it. You're bound to get a job eventually if you keep pushing, and you know your mother will cave if you press. We've done Algebra and configured Linux before, this is nothing compared to that. Stop freaking out.

    Mudd: But I've never done it before! And what if I get distracted or something? And it's going to take so long and stress me out. On top of that, it will stress my mother out, and I don't like that. Algebra and Linux didn't have such big consequences riding on them, I felt free to mess around with those.

    Lineon: Can you hear yourself? Don't you realize that there was a first time you did everything? You're going to pay that much more attention and not get distracted precisely because it's your first time. And please... do you honestly believe that the value of consequences changes the nature of the situation? It doesn't, it's only changing your perspective.

    Mudd: I'm still scared, though. And the value of consequences might not change anything for you, but I'm actually bothered by the thought of being uncomfortable. I might have to be uncomfortable for a long time before I see any benefit from doing this.

    Lineon: But you're going to be so much more comfortable later on. And no one is going to let anything bad happen to you. You're not in the middle of the wilderness, you're in a functional, civilized society. You're perfectly safe.

    Mudd: I'm only going to be more comfortable if it works out like you plan. Otherwise I'm screwing everything up for nothing. And don't you dare lie to me. I've seen what happens to people on the news and in movies. You're going to tell me I can trust people I don't even know? There are whole organizations that are probably out to get us!

    Lineon: It will work if you try hard enough, and long enough. And you're surrounded by human beings. The news prints the worst stories, and movies are mere entertainment and dramatization. You know that you're a human being, and you have shown compassion, so why don't you expect it in return?

    Mudd: You don't understand me at all. I can't just rely on what you're saying. I haven't seen any reasons to do things differently than I'm doing them now, or to think differently than I do now. I'm not going to rely on your invisible assumptions. You could be both wrong and insane for all I know. I haven't got any thing to weigh what you're saying against. Just leave me alone.

    Lineon: Fine. I can't seem to get through to you anyway, so I suppose I'll have to try something else.

    Mudd: That's good, I'll be right over here if you need me, taking a nap. *goes to sleep*

    Lineon: *sigh* I wish I had someone else to help me. Mudd is useless, and I can't do this on my own.

    Okay, even though we're dealing with two parts of the same mind, I'm curious... suppose that I'm Lineon, and I want to resolve my conflict with Mudd so that I can get Mudd to cooperate with me and move forward. What would you suggest is the root of my communication difficulties with Mudd?

    More importantly, why does it tend to seem like I'm stuck dragging Mudd around, and am frustrated in my efforts because I can't simply become Lineon and act as they would?

  2. #2
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Allow me to introduce Stormy to Lineon. Perhaps she can teach you a thing or two on how to deal (both meanings of the word) with Mudd.

    Hesitancy before a new obstacle is natural. Who doesn't want the easy way out? Pretend Mudd is a friend of yours rather than a part of you. How would you motivate him forward?

    Reminder of the reward at the end. Then taunt until you get a response... by that I mean attack at the root of the fear. You should know what Mudd's most afraid of. If the pull of a lure isn't enough, then you push with fear. Destablize the current state. How does Mudd identify himself? Attack at the incongruous between actions and identity.

    Another thing Stormy likes to use is "circling arguments". Gather up a pile of arguments that attacks left right and center. Do not let Mudd dwell on one particular point for long enough to dig into a trench. Continue until Mudd withdraws in defense. Then you back up and let him sit and think. Mudd's smart... he'll figure it out.

    Then you offer ways to help him along. Of course you can bargain stuff for your advice.

    Have fun with the campaign.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  3. #3
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Mudd sounds like a valuable but unproved fellow. And it's the unproved part of her that makes her so troublesome. She's tough and valuable but she needs some work to get her teeth into. Currently all she has to chew on is you. You could ask her to shut up for a while and give you a chance to set up something substantial for her to work out on. She needs something worth her effort.




    (And consider reintegrating your personalities. Yer freakin me out.)

  4. #4
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Allow me to introduce Stormy to Lineon. Perhaps she can teach you a thing or two on how to deal (both meanings of the word) with Mudd.

    Hesitancy before a new obstacle is natural. Who doesn't want the easy way out? Pretend Mudd is a friend of yours rather than a part of you. How would you motivate him forward?
    I'm not sure. If Mudd were a friend, I'd probably try to get them to focus on something else so they'd calm down. I wouldn't have the heart to make them face the situation. If they pressed me for advice, I'd probably say much the same kind of thing Lineon is saying, but try to say it more politely.
    Reminder of the reward at the end. Then taunt until you get a response... by that I mean attack at the root of the fear. You should know what Mudd's most afraid of. If the pull of a lure isn't enough, then you push with fear. Destablize the current state. How does Mudd identify himself? Attack at the incongruous between actions and identity.
    Mudd knows about the reward. Mudd is most afraid of uncertainty, and risks of discomfort or embarrassment. They see themselves as promoting caution and comfort in the present. I'd have to set up a situation where the consequences of inaction are immediately worse than the consequences of action. I have much more leverage in those situations, Mudd almost entirely cedes control to me then.

    The thing is, Mudd remembers times I've done this before, and now does their best to avoid being put in those kind of situations. The kind of situation I'm in now is actually the kind Mudd likes, because it doesn't tend to change, isn't at all demanding, and allows them to ignore my agenda completely while pursuing their own. In other words, Mudd learned how to do to me what I used to do to them. I suppose I could also try criticizing Mudd by their own standards, pointing out ways they're currently failing to provide me with comfort and aren't being cautious enough. That would force Mudd to try and understand my perspective.
    Another thing Stormy likes to use is "circling arguments". Gather up a pile of arguments that attacks left right and center. Do not let Mudd dwell on one particular point for long enough to dig into a trench. Continue until Mudd withdraws in defense. Then you back up and let him sit and think. Mudd's smart... he'll figure it out.

    Then you offer ways to help him along. Of course you can bargain stuff for your advice.
    Ah, that might help. I've always had problems with tending to argue defensively and building up an argument rather than offensively on my feet. I'll see if I can learn how to effectively argue my points in a more assertive, pressuring, fast-paced way.

    Yes, I'm pretty sure Mudd will want my help if they decide to act. They always do.

    Have fun with the campaign.
    I'll do my best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Mudd sounds like a valuable but unproved fellow. And it's the unproved part of her that makes her so troublesome. She's tough and valuable but she needs some work to get her teeth into. Currently all she has to chew on is you. You could ask her to shut up for a while and give you a chance to set up something substantial for her to work out on. She needs something worth her effort.
    I guess that's the thing. I haven't had any work for Mudd in a while. I've just been giving them their space while I was busy. The problem is that they got entrenched and developed their own agenda and perspective more fully, and now they don't want to listen to anything complicated.

    I suppose it should be more substantial. I guess I'll have to work on defining my plan more precisely, and making sure it can be broken down into individual actions that Mudd knows how to perform.



    (And consider reintegrating your personalities. Yer freakin me out.)
    They've, err... never really been that integrated. Why does it freak you out?

  5. #5
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    (And consider reintegrating your personalities. Yer freakin me out.)
    This is perfectly normal INFJ inner dialogue. Personalities need not be integrated so long as they don't interfere with RL.

    Athenian
    Well there's a difference between caution and stalling. Caution is making safe advancement, stalling in building walls to justify inaction.

    Caution is learning from mistake in the past... recall the times you tried doing something that didn't worked out as planned. What really happened then? What could you have done differently? Based on that, is there some small ventures you can take to test out those ideas?

    If it's too difficult for you to get a job... perhaps a volunteer position might be more suitable. Is there a community center or library or what not nearby that could use some free assistance? Offer them your computer skills and I'm sure many places will be glad to have it. Work from there to other IT related jobs should be do-able. But that's way in the future.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  6. #6
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    They've, err... never really been that integrated. Why does it freak you out?
    It was a joke of sorts.

    But also based on an intuition that if there were more than one voice in my head, they would represent a state of disempowerment. (One of the voices would likely be whiny Fi warning me that I feel bad about my ability to act on what I decide so I should just stick with what keeps me comfortable.)

    IF such an intuition holds true for an INFJ, the whiny voice wouldn't be feeling, but--I guess--Ti, warning that no truth is absolute, nothing can be known with certainty, so how can I act? But I don't know how INFJs make decisions. Voices-plural may be a good thing.

    An INTJ best move is make a Te-decision to act and follow it to see what happens because whatever happens, the action will have changed my situation and I'll know better what to do next as a result. Fi can chime in at that stage because it has something new to work with too.

    Fe best move is supposedly, tell others what you need and ask if they will join in.

    (But that comes from Lenore Whatsername and she may be a closet Fe-hater.)

  7. #7
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Why Lineon and Mudd?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #8
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    Hm... Has Mudd ever considered what would honestly happen if everything stayed as it is? I get that there's a comfort to it, but if in the long term, Mudd refused to take action, what'd happen? Because even if Mudd does nothing different, things would still change, except that Mudd would have no active control in how they do. At least if you take the first step, you can step backwards if you need to.

    Also, perhaps Lineon is asking for too much at once. Speaking from experience, throwing yourself head-on into a completely different lifestyle makes people freeze up. But perhaps if the travel stuff seems scary, then maybe try going on the route, to see what it's like. It's not a commitment, it's a bus ride. And there's no real harm in that. Mudd's reacting to the entire process, but that reaction might change if it's smaller and more manageable. And consider that, should you get the job, everything will be much easier from that point. The fear seems to be coming more from the possibility of everything than the tasks themselves.

    Does that make any sense? I think I'm just rambling. My brain's slightly non-functional at the moment.
    [insert funny quote/saying/etc.]

  9. #9
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Well there's a difference between caution and stalling. Caution is making safe advancement, stalling in building walls to justify inaction.

    Caution is learning from mistake in the past... recall the times you tried doing something that didn't worked out as planned. What really happened then? What could you have done differently? Based on that, is there some small ventures you can take to test out those ideas?
    Not that I know of. I feel kind of trapped by my lack of practical experience in even leaving the house alone very often. I've done it a few times, but I'm kind of scared to do it consistently in the neighborhood I live in.
    If it's too difficult for you to get a job... perhaps a volunteer position might be more suitable. Is there a community center or library or what not nearby that could use some free assistance? Offer them your computer skills and I'm sure many places will be glad to have it. Work from there to other IT related jobs should be do-able. But that's way in the future.
    It just seems like there's this huge chunk of a step, getting into a consistent routine of needing to get myself somewhere everyday, that just seems so huge and hard to face.

    If I weren't afraid of that, I probably would have found a job already... sigh. I really hate the way I crippled my Fe by assuming that I could just not deal with people, do my schoolwork, and everything would just work out when I got my diploma.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach
    Fe best move is supposedly, tell others what you need and ask if they will join in.

    (But that comes from Lenore Whatsername and she may be a closet Fe-hater.)
    I feel like that would make things a lot easier if I had it as an option. But I haven't made or kept any friends who I could ask... so I'm kind of SOL there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard
    Why Lineon and Mudd?
    It's kind of silly, but I'll tell you. When I focused on the part of my mind that represented Lineon, the three words "Linear," "Eon," and "Linnaeus" came into my mind. So I made a name out of them.

    When I focused on the part of my mind that represented Mudd, I just got "Muhh" and "Duuh." So I called it Mudd, which also kind of describes the consistency and general feeling of that part of my mind. Also kind of sounds like the acronym FUD, which is another good description of it.

    I was just going to go with Logic vs. Emotion, or Left-brain vs. Right brain, but that didn't really fit, because both sides were using logic and emotion, though in different ways and from different perspectives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerithria
    Hm... Has Mudd ever considered what would honestly happen if everything stayed as it is? I get that there's a comfort to it, but if in the long term, Mudd refused to take action, what'd happen? Because even if Mudd does nothing different, things would still change, except that Mudd would have no active control in how they do. At least if you take the first step, you can step backwards if you need to.
    Lineon understands that, but Mudd doesn't really think about the future. That's why it's so hard to get through to Mudd.
    Also, perhaps Lineon is asking for too much at once. Speaking from experience, throwing yourself head-on into a completely different lifestyle makes people freeze up. But perhaps if the travel stuff seems scary, then maybe try going on the route, to see what it's like. It's not a commitment, it's a bus ride. And there's no real harm in that. Mudd's reacting to the entire process, but that reaction might change if it's smaller and more manageable. And consider that, should you get the job, everything will be much easier from that point. The fear seems to be coming more from the possibility of everything than the tasks themselves.
    Yes, I suppose I will need to find a way to break this down into smaller, non-threatening steps if I'm ever going to get Mudd to go along with it.

    Does that make any sense? I think I'm just rambling. My brain's slightly non-functional at the moment.

    Yep, I think so. You seem coherent enough to me.

  10. #10
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Lineon understands that, but Mudd doesn't really think about the future. That's why it's so hard to get through to Mudd.
    Well, Mudd sort of does, in that every idea Lineon puts forth gets hit with a bunch of "what-if"s. It's just that the futures Mudd generates are rationalizations. There has to be a line, though. Where the fear of inaction becomes more powerful than the fear of action. If there were some way Lineon could turn Mudd's pessimism back onto Mudd's own arguments, you might be able to reach that point.

    I'm not really sure how you'd go about that, though. The way I handled it is risky - which would be to completely cut yourself off from your own money, making getting a job something completely unavoidable. It's not exactly a long-term solution for taking action though.
    [insert funny quote/saying/etc.]

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