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527468

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Four known recognitions of brain power:

Left-brained power [known as common sense or "intelligence"]

Right-brained power [someone with right-brained power can be known as gifted, intuitive or creative]

Wisdom [different than right or left brained power, because wisdom is the application and understanding of power where as the others are "potential" power. so wisdom is more so a second step]

Memory [robotic power, this person seen as quite smart because he can remember tons of facts and specifics from conversation and what not]


The INTP/INTJ proposition has come up before, and I would say most INTPs and INTJs are pretty even keel on the memory and leftbrainedness, not to say they are both leftbrained (for instance one person can be just as talented in leftbrainedness than another, yet one might be more talented in rightbrainedness and one less talented in rightbrainedness), but INTPs are known to usually have more talent in rightbrained power where as INTJs have more talent is wisdom. Wisdom would be the application of such left or right brained power. Js are usually (note I said usually) more wise because they practice their judging functions, theoretically. And it has been agreed upon that all Js practice their judging function most often. Wisdom as said is one of four ways to be smart. A perceiving function mostly involves a right brained activity, though every person has all four recognitions of brain power. ISFJs are known to have very good memory skills and I have noticed this from many of them. Memory and wisdom are a combination of left and right brained activity and are the two most closely related though not usually both applied to the same person. Just some insight on the four most recognized brain powers.

Source: experience

My friend is quite impractical yet he can remember almost anything he reads or anything I say right down to every detail.

Research I've done roughly correlates the four brain powers to the four temperaments. So if you fit best into one temperament you are more likely to have a certain brain power and here they are:

Phlegmatic is most likely to have advanced memory skills
Choleric is most likely to have advanced wisdom
Melancholic is most likely to have advanced leftbrainedness
Sanguine is most likely to have advanced rightbrainedness
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
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hey kids, iq is like sex, the less you have the more you babble about it.

Get a room of something.
(and stop taking those damn internet test that 'd make a cow look like einstein, i repeat, this is S A D )
 

jamesvl

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In the post that I'm referring to, INxxs were listed in the following order of intelligence:

1. INTJ
2. INTP
3. INFP
4. INFJ

obviously as an NT with the identifier as 1 in the list (above) I'm going to be fully in agreement heh...

but in truth? whatever... i know when i was tested properly and had to take all the different tests in a controlled environment, I had a really nice IQ which only inflated my already massive ego (I'm kidding so don't take that seriously... damn text on page grrr)... yet, when I take those online tests my IQ is all over the board, usually ridiculously higher, though once I did one and it was really low, and I chalked it up to laziness (I skimmed and even checked a few things I didn't read).

I also found that because I spent a large part of my life doing nothing but traveling and learning about the world we live on, and not using my "IQ" that I had a later start than those with whom I went to uni.

Mind you at the same token, catching and passing them was - imho - more due to my experience, and less to do with the IQ scholastically.

Of course, it's 6 in the am and I'm still up having taken xmas eve as an advantage to update all the server farms, while sitting on a train to visit family...

yeah, i'm going to stop talking now... i think this is pretty much a ramble.:shock:
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
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hey kids, iq is like sex, the less you have the more you babble about it.

Get a room of something.
(and stop taking those damn internet test that 'd make a cow look like einstein, i repeat, this is S A D )

Hehe, ENTPs can rest easily in this domain.

I've been trying to confirm my type and this might be helpful. What type of questions do other ENFPs get wrong on I.Q. tests? And what do ENTPs get wrong?

On the introverted intuitive thing I know some very high I.Q. INTPs. On the crap online test I saw many ENTPs scoring 150+ also.
 

CrystalViolet

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I don't think I've ever met a stupid INTP. I don't think I've met a stupid INFP either (myself not included at this point.)
I tend to agree that IQ means diddly squat, however for those of you who have dabbled in the field of giftedness, or have experience in being regarded so, should be familiar, with the difficulties faced once you get past an IQ of 130. The world simpily isn't built for those that don't fit nicely in the bell curve. Especially if they aren't identified and catered for. As most of you have said IQ can be a pretty poor determinent of success.
Funnily enough, I don't think EQ is the best determinant of success either, but that's my humble opinion, I have nothing to back that statement up, other than my observations. I read the book, I can't remember the authors name, but I found the whole concept of EQ, rather misses the mark as well, mainly because I thought the author was a wanker. It's been a few years since I read it, but really, I don't think what he defines as a successful person and their characteristics lines up with my personal experience and observations.
 

BlueScreen

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I don't think I've ever met a stupid INTP. I don't think I've met a stupid INFP either (myself not included at this point.)
I tend to agree that IQ means diddly squat, however for those of you who have dabbled in the field of giftedness, or have experience in being regarded so, should be familiar, with the difficulties faced once you get past an IQ of 130. The world simpily isn't built for those that don't fit nicely in the bell curve. Especially if they aren't identified and catered for. As most of you have said IQ can be a pretty poor determinent of success.
Funnily enough, I don't think EQ is the best determinant of success either, but that's my humble opinion, I have nothing to back that statement up, other than my observations. I read the book, I can't remember the authors name, but I found the whole concept of EQ, rather misses the mark as well, mainly because I thought the author was a wanker. It's been a few years since I read it, but really, I don't think what he defines as a successful person and their characteristics lines up with my personal experience and observations.

They did an IQ test at my school and I took a sick day because I hated all the achievement and being special stuff. The pretentiousness and often unfair bias that goes with it at some schools really annoys me. Just because you have a higher IQ doesn't mean you want to be some MENSA kid. Especially if you are an ENFP, rather than a thinking type. I did want the opportunity to do certain extension subjects later that they said I couldn't do, and it might've helped change their mind though.
 

CrystalViolet

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They did an IQ test at my school and I took a sick day because I hated all the achievement and being special stuff. The pretentiousness and often unfair bias that goes with it at some schools really annoys me. Just because you have a higher IQ doesn't mean you want to be some MENSA kid. Especially if you are an ENFP, rather than a thinking type. I did want the opportunity to do certain extension subjects later that they said I couldn't do, and it might've helped change their mind though.
I didn't think I was special. For the longest time I thought I wasn't that bright. It just turns out I was out of synch with the rest of my year. I had already been put up, a year. Also I had several learning disabilities as well, so I wasn't "obvious". My mother was also dead set against me getting special treatment, or even telling me. I found out on my last day of high school.
It's hard being seen as the brainy kid. I wouldn't necessarily wish on any one, so I empathise with you. I do wish there were special programs in my school, but there were so many kids with severe learning problems, they couldn't afford the man power to cater for those on the other side of the scale.
I don't consider myself elite, I consider myself as someone who wasted their gifts. There are some sites around if you want to check it out. It's an issue I haven't really address in my self yet. I can't quite face it yet.
P.S. I know exactly what you mean about being XNFP, and bright. It kinda cuts you off from people, and really that's the last thing you want.
 

lunalum

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I didn't think I was special. For the longest time I thought I wasn't that bright. It just turns out I was out of synch with the rest of my year. I had already been put up, a year. Also I had several learning disabilities as well, so I wasn't "obvious". My mother was also dead set against me getting special treatment, or even telling me. I found out on my last day of high school.
It's hard being seen as the brainy kid. I wouldn't necessarily wish on any one, so I empathise with you. I do wish there were special programs in my school, but there were so many kids with severe learning problems, they couldn't afford the man power to cater for those on the other side of the scale.
I don't consider myself elite, I consider myself as someone who wasted their gifts. There are some sites around if you want to check it out. It's an issue I haven't really address in my self yet. I can't quite face it yet.
P.S. I know exactly what you mean about being XNFP, and bright. It kinda cuts you off from people, and really that's the last thing you want.

What is really terrible is being XNTP and not bright.
:cry:

Listening to people talking about how brilliant they are in some ways, yet saying that they are not special and it doesn't even matter.... it's like nails on a chalkboard. I.Q. in itself is not intelligence, but it is at least one type of intelligence that is sometimes necessary for everyday activities. Lack of IQ related talents can be really painful to someone whose main goal in life is to learn.

</bitter, jealous rant of a non-gifted INTP>
 

BlueScreen

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What is really terrible is being XNTP and not bright.
:cry:

Listening to people talking about how brilliant they are in some ways, yet saying that they are not special and it doesn't even matter.... it's like nails on a chalkboard. I.Q. in itself is not intelligence, but it is at least one type of intelligence that is sometimes necessary for everyday activities. Lack of IQ related talents can be really painful to someone whose main goal in life is to learn.

</bitter, jealous rant of a non-gifted INTP>

Argh! I feel intimidated in INTP land, but for an INTP to.. My sympathies are definitely with you.

Don't worry about wasted talents though. NFPs use theirs quite well. Reward based achievement is just not normally at the top of our goals. Something which drives both my INFJ mother and INTP father nuts. But I'm always looking for something more concrete than a piece of paper that says I can do what I know I can do. I'm pretty thankful for what I've been given. Just when it is approached the wrong way it gets shut down rather than enhanced, which is what the school thing was about. Being an NFP, MENSA puzzles are not what I'm built to solve, just something I can solve. Schools often don't make this distinction between focus and ability though. If I was an INTP rather than an ENFP I would be more likely to hold these things in higher esteem. But I'm built for psychological and social systems, and scientific systems with human related goals. Or finding wonders about life and the universe. Logic and theory alone are not always fulfilling.

Why do you say you are non-gifted also? If your main goal in life is to learn, learning is what you will do. It doesn't need to be quantum field theory or anything. Having the will to learn is worth a lot.
 

CrystalViolet

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I would think you are bright.
I don't think IQ is important. My personal experience is a prime example.
To learn, well, what higher princple is there?
 

EcK

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Hehe, ENTPs can rest easily in this domain.

I've been trying to confirm my type and this might be helpful. What type of questions do other ENFPs get wrong on I.Q. tests? And what do ENTPs get wrong?

On the introverted intuitive thing I know some very high I.Q. INTPs. On the crap online test I saw many ENTPs scoring 150+ also.
There are two ways of calculating iq, - in serious tests i mean - in the us I believe you often use the cattell or similar tests. While the weschler, used in europe basically stops at 150. Higher iqs are less reliable since very rare and it gets harder to know if the test scoring system stays accurate and adapted. So if somebody got over 150 IQ it basically means he or she took a less discriminating one.

150 WAIS-R IQ is 180 cattell IQ.

Weschler
65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 105 110 115 120 125 130 135 140 145 150
Cattell
44 52 60 68 76 84 92 100 108 116 124 132 140 148 156 164 172 180
distribution for Weschler: 125 5% -- 135 1% -- 140IQ 4\1000 -- 145IQ 1\1000

Here, just giving the data. And it's of course about real tests, and remember those statistics where mainly made with people doing this test at an age when they didn't have complex methods and formations that could help them. They (me included) where confronted to such things for the first time in their lives.

Any adult will have done similar tests at least once, at work, given by friends or whatever.

Statistically they also were just feeling 'average' at that time.

My experience: Took an official iq test at 13, had high fever after 4 days of swinging between 39 and 41 degrees celcius.
I was under stress because of the forementioned sickness+iq test AND by the exam I had JUST after the damn test.


So when people take the test at twenty something, did similar problem solving already, probably tried some iq tests online. They should remember that usually people didn't have this 'luck' and were facing something completely new and unexpected.

edit: the standford binet test also seems to be inflated compared to the WAIS-R
The SD-16 iq : 146-147 wais R iq is 150 SD-16 IQ
 

ptgatsby

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The SD-16 iq : 146-147 wais R iq is 150 SD-16 IQ

IIRC:

Wais should be SD 15, I think is considered fairly valid up to 4 devs (40-160). It does have two categories and 11 types of questions (? for Wais-R, I think... might be 18 or so for the IV) and is normalized within age groups as well.
 

JordanLane

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Contact MENSA in Texas. You take the test in a room suprivised.
 

01011010

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Contact MENSA in Texas. You take the test in a room suprivised.

I wouldn't recommend anyone joining MENSA, unless they're looking to meet similar people. That seemed to be the only benefit. The crowd was older as well. That may have just been my experience though.
 

Ulaes

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I didn't think I was special. For the longest time I thought I wasn't that bright. It just turns out I was out of synch with the rest of my year. I had already been put up, a year. Also I had several learning disabilities as well, so I wasn't "obvious". My mother was also dead set against me getting special treatment, or even telling me. I found out on my last day of high school.
It's hard being seen as the brainy kid. I wouldn't necessarily wish on any one, so I empathise with you. I do wish there were special programs in my school, but there were so many kids with severe learning problems, they couldn't afford the man power to cater for those on the other side of the scale.
I don't consider myself elite, I consider myself as someone who wasted their gifts. There are some sites around if you want to check it out. It's an issue I haven't really address in my self yet. I can't quite face it yet.
P.S. I know exactly what you mean about being XNFP, and bright. It kinda cuts you off from people, and really that's the last thing you want.

what kind of learning disabilties?
 

Valhallahereicome

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What is really terrible is being XNTP and not bright.
:cry:

Listening to people talking about how brilliant they are in some ways, yet saying that they are not special and it doesn't even matter.... it's like nails on a chalkboard. I.Q. in itself is not intelligence, but it is at least one type of intelligence that is sometimes necessary for everyday activities. Lack of IQ related talents can be really painful to someone whose main goal in life is to learn.

</bitter, jealous rant of a non-gifted INTP>

I would definitely agree here. I'm borderline T/F and kind of suck at both. Not greatly empathic and not brilliantly inventive either. And I do love learning and developing new systems of seeing the world - if only I was smarter, I could know and understand SO much more by now. As it is - well, this is kinda embarrassing, but I will read books by great thinkers or strike up conversations with bright people and then steal their ideas. Not copy them blindly, mind you, but dissect them and refine them with the intellectual skills I have. If I were to try and come up with those ideas on my own, well, it would take forever.

Intuition also helps. In high school, we had to read Plato and I think it was he who said that there are two ways of arriving at the truth: Logical reasoning and intuition. When you intuit a truth, you can work your way backwards with reason to see if it makes sense. It's like the difference between hacking your way through untouched jungle toward an unseen destination, and following a rough but pre-existing path back from your endpoint to your starting point to see if the endpoint matches the destination you had in mind. For those of us who aren't gifted explorers, the latter is the best option.

Anyway, I tend to score INFP on the MBTI and ENTP on socionics and my IQ hovers around the upper 120s.
 

Poki

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I think anyone can have a high IQ. I think in regard to a high IQ and an ISTP it allows us to reverse engineer things like crazy. And no I am not talking about hacking.
 

Valiant

Courage is immortality
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Contact MENSA in Texas. You take the test in a room suprivised.

Questions:

1. Are Texan tests bigger and tastier?
2. Can I bring my various small-arms?
3. Will there be deep fried food?
4. Since everything is bigger in Texas, is your IQ higher, as well? :huh:

This sounds like a genuinely cool field trip. :)
 
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