...

[Doctor Cringelord]

Yes, minority. The interwebz is full of genius NTs that don't do shit and suck at application. The best advice I can give to an NT is get outta your head and intuition and find the balance between theory and reality. An INTP for example is split between N and S just like I am being ISTP. Just reverse NeSi vs SeNi. Figure out how to use those as a checks and balance system for each other and you will grow

Yes, I think finding success for either type is dependent on using both the middle functions without relying on either too heavily.

An INTP who neglects Ne will get in a TiSi rut, basing their judgments and decisions on comfortable past knowledge whilst neglecting alternate possibilities. Relying on Ne too much and ignoring the Si means they won't be using past experience and knowledge to help back up and/or confirm/test new ideas and possibilities.

I suppose with ISTP, the danger of neglecting Se means they aren't taking in that present, real-time data to help back up their TiNi perspectives. Ignoring the Ni means they might become TOO dependent on present sensory data while failing to step back and get some perspective on a situation.

Half-baked type analysis reduced to a few sentences, so I apologize if I'm wrong or oversimplifying the essences of both types.

 

[Poki]

Yes, I think finding success for either type is dependent on using both the middle functions without relying on either too heavily.

An INTP who neglects Ne will get in a TiSi rut, basing their judgments and decisions on comfortable past knowledge whilst neglecting alternate possibilities. Relying on Ne too much and ignoring the Si means they won't be using past experience and knowledge to help back up and/or confirm/test new ideas and possibilities.

I suppose with ISTP, the danger of neglecting Se means they aren't taking in that present, real-time data to help back up their TiNi perspectives. Ignoring the Ni means they might become TOO dependent on present sensory data while failing to step back and get some perspective on a situation.

Half-baked type analysis reduced to a few sentences, so I apologize if I'm wrong or oversimplifying the essences of both types.

Which is funny when you think about it because an INTP in a rut will say how hard it is being N when they are stuck in S..lol

 

[uumlau]

I was working on a puzzle book which seems to contain problems from both Mensa and Wechsler styled tests. My wife bought it because she thought practicing the problems would help her think more like our son, who is advanced in multiple areas.

Anyway, I was doing pretty good (better with the number and pattern-based problems, not as well with problems dealing with popular figures of speech) on several problems, but all I can think is if I could take half the brain power I devoted to solving the problems and apply it to some business enterprise, I would be set for life.

You don't even need half the brain power, or be a genius. You just need to be persistent and oriented towards accumulating savings. The results start off very very slow, but accelerate in later years as earning power increases along with any investments you made in earlier years.

Just take doing what you love to do and turn it into money ... well, except being a musician or actor or athlete where the odds of earning a decent living are minuscule in spite of the few spectacular millionaires who succeed beyond their wildest dreams. Heck, just being a good plumber or electrician or other skilled trade will earn you a lot more than a PhD when that PhD is in something that people don't want to buy.

There's a book titled "The Millionaire Next Door" that explains a lot about how this works. The real millionaires do NOT live a Beverly Hills lifestyle. They look middle class and act middle class, but have a shit-ton of money in the bank, just from being persistent about earning it and conscientious about saving it.

 

[Silent]

I have taken several IQ tests and they all go by what you have learned in school. That is not a true indication of IQ for those that have had less education. I believe that Someone could be smarter than a test would indicate and that if you teach them certain math questions or other questions they have not been exposed to yet they can get a higher score in just a few minutes time. I went from a 103 to a 123 in five minutes of instructions for math and that's just because I had never seen that kind of question before. The difference is astounding and therefore, the tests are just an indicator of education. If anyone knows something different I would like to hear about it.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Which is funny when you think about it because an INTP in a rut will say how hard it is being N when they are stuck in S..lol

INTPs and ISTPs are flipsides of the same coin in that respect

 

[Flâneuse]

I have taken several IQ tests and they all go by what you have learned in school. That is not a true indication of IQ for those that have had less education. I believe that Someone could be smarter than a test would indicate and that if you teach them certain math questions or other questions they have not been exposed to yet they can get a higher score in just a few minutes time. I went from a 103 to a 123 in five minutes of instructions for math and that's just because I had never seen that kind of question before. The difference is astounding and therefore, the tests are just an indicator of education. If anyone knows something different I would like to hear about it.

I keep hearing that IQ is a measure of mental aptitude, but I agree with you that's it's actually more a measure of ability and that one's score (especially verbal IQ) is not always a reliable indicator of their inherent brainpower relative to the general population because factors like education and test-taking skills are so important. IQ level definitely correlates with inherent intelligence level, though, because high aptitude is obviously necessary for the development of high ability, and intelligent people tend to be more intellectually curious (not always, of course) and therefore more likely to seek out knowledge and to pursue and succeed in higher education. If someone gets a high score they obviously have a pretty good capacity to learn and reason, but their intellectual aptitude isn't necessarily as far ahead of the general population as their score would indicate. There are a bunch of factors that influence the development of their abilities - having better educational opportunities than most people, being in an intellectually enriching environment where they're exposed to more knowledge, having a very high level of curiosity, etc. And as you touched on, a person can have skill levels that are lower than their aptitude would allow - this could be due to lower curiosity or lack of educational opportunities and general exposure to knowledge and ideas. (Verbal IQ in particular relies heavily on acquired knowledge. Performance/non-verbal IQ is less flexible because it correlates more with fluid intelligence, or the ability to solve novel problems based on reasoning alone rather than using stored knowledge.)

 

[Tilt]

I.Q. is quite irrelevant as long as one is able to figure out how to get what they want out of life and succeed.

 

[Stek]

I.Q. is quite irrelevant as long as one is able to figure out how to get what they want out of life and succeed.

However, if one is able to do exactly that, one is likely to have above average IQ.

IQ is a measurement of the potential to be successful.

It is, of course, entirely possible to have a high IQ while still not amount to anything.

 

[Tilt]

However, if one is able to do exactly that, one is likely to have above average IQ.

IQ is a measurement of the potential to be successful.

It is, of course, entirely possible to have a high IQ while still not amount to anything.

Part of figuring out what you want out of life and succeeding is having some self-awareness and setting realistic goals within the realm of your limitations. Unless you have a notably low IQ, I would think that would be fairly reasonable to achieve.

IQ can be a decent indicator but it can also be quite limiting if one puts too much stock into it.

I typically score below average-average on most of the IQ type tests but did well academically w/ minimal effort and worked my way up to an executive position.

 

[Poki]

However, if one is able to do exactly that, one is likely to have above average IQ.

IQ is a measurement of the potential to be successful.

It is, of course, entirely possible to have a high IQ while still not amount to anything.

No it doesn't. IQ measures your reasoning and problem solving abilities. It specifically measures the speed and the complexity of it. Has nothing at all to do with success or even possibility of success. IQ is such a small portion of success I wouldn't tie it to being successful or not.

 

[Poki]

Part of figuring out what you want out of life and succeeding is having some self-awareness and setting realistic goals within the realm of your limitations. Unless you have a notably low IQ, I would think that would be fairly reasonable to achieve.

IQ can be a decent indicator but it can also be quite limiting if one puts too much stock into it.

I typically score below average-average on most of the IQ type tests but did well academically w/ minimal effort and worked my way up to an executive position.

.and I score way up in the 0.5% range and graduated in bottom quarter of my class in high school. Did good in college though, but gave up after associates. I personally avoid any executive or management positions because i dont want to deal with that stuff.

 

[Tilt]

.and I score way up in the 0.5% range and graduated in bottom quarter of my class in high school. Did good in college though, but gave up after associates. I personally avoid any executive or management positions because i dont want to deal with that stuff.

Frankly, I just didn't want to be bossed around and deal with people's incompetencies. I think what the IQ tests don't account for is my ability to manipulate and apply relevant data regarding people and processes to fit whatever goals I have...I am exceptionally intelligent and calculated in this regard but abstract logic puzzles are not really in my skillset.

 

[Poki]

Frankly, I just didn't want to be bossed around and deal with people's incompetencies. I think what the IQ tests don't account for is my ability to manipulate and apply relevant data regarding people and processes to fit whatever goals I have...I am exceptionally intelligent and calculated in this regard but abstract logic puzzles are not really in my skillset.

Yeah, now your gonna bring in the you have a high IQ its just in a different subject argument. I know quite a bit of people like this who have below average IQs. They leverage others to get where they are. It's the skillet a managers and executives need. I like for things to be done right and its less draining for me to do it myself then to find competent people that can do it. Due to a very high IQ I can learn to the point I become an expert at the drop of a hat. That's less draining and easier, combined with my desire to learn everything(school bored the shit outta me), and my enjoyment to be a hands on person has really lead me down the path I went. It's a bunch of things besides a high IQ that has helped me succeed.

All the above basically puts me as a natural consultant.

 

[Tilt]

Yeah, now your gonna bring in the you have a high IQ its just in a different subject argument.

Well, technically, no. That would distort the true meaning of IQ, wouldn't it? I am just saying I have a certain skill-set that probably wouldn't be accounted for in most IQ tests. I tell people all the time that I have an average IQ.

I know quite a bit of people like this who have below average IQs. They leverage others to get where they are. It's the skillet a managers and executives need.

I am unsure about that in my case. I got to where I am due to my merit and competency regardless of my IQ. Most people, in real life, don't even know what my actual position is because I didn't really want to exert power and control onto other people.

I like for things to be done right and its less draining for me to do it myself then to find competent people that can do it.

Ironically, that was my motivation to try to get myself in the executive position so I could have much more sway in the direction of the company.

Due to a very high IQ I can learn to the point I become an expert at the drop of a hat. That's less draining and easier, combined with my desire to learn everything(school bored the shit outta me), and my enjoyment to be a hands on person has really lead me down the path I went.

Although I may not have a high IQ, I am somewhat the same way... I learn things well enough for them to be useful to me. And I like to learn how all aspects of business come together to fit into the overall big picture. The fun and the challenge is to see how all the moving parts interact, pinpoint the problems, and find efficient solutions to prevent major headaches in the future.

It's a bunch of things besides a high IQ that has helped me succeed. All the above basically puts me as a natural consultant.

I could see that. You seem like a solid, standup guy. Ultimately, I would love to become a business consultant... in fact, I may eventually become one for my friend. My current position is a way to get some real world experience.

 

[Poki]

Well, technically, no. That would distort the true meaning of IQ, wouldn't it? I am just saying I have a certain skill-set that probably wouldn't be accounted for in most IQ tests. I tell people all the time that I have an average IQ.



I am unsure about that in my case. I got to where I am due to my merit and competency regardless of my IQ. Most people, in real life, don't even know what my actual position is because I didn't really want to exert power and control onto other people.


Ironically, that was my motivation to try to get myself in the executive position so I could have much more sway in the direction of the company.


Although I may not have a high IQ, I am somewhat the same way... I learn things well enough for them to be useful to me. And I like to learn how all aspects of business come together to fit into the overall big picture. The fun and the challenge is to see how all the moving parts interact, pinpoint the problems, and find efficient solutions to prevent major headaches in the future.



I could see that. You seem like a solid, standup guy. Ultimately, I would love to become a business consultant... in fact, I may eventually become one for my friend. My current position is a way to get some real world experience.

It would distort true meaning, I really more meant by you mentioning what you are good at others will jump on the band wagon of IQ in different subject matters. It's just a rationalization technique others use. Only reason it semi drives me nuts is that it puts into that persons head that it actually matters what IQ is and that they have it as long as you twist and add qualifiers. I would prefer to just say that IQ doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things. It's a small part of a big equation, and we all have different things we are good at.

 

[á´…eparted]

It would distort true meaning, I really more meant by you mentioning what you are good at others will jump on the band wagon of IQ in different subject matters. It's just a rationalization technique others use. Only reason it semi drives me nuts is that it puts into that persons head that it actually matters what IQ is and that they have it as long as you twist and add qualifiers. I would prefer to just say that IQ doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things. It's a small part of a big equation, and we all have different things we are good at.

Well, in a vacuum IQ does matter. Having a high IQ has a benefit over having a low IQ. The thing is you simply can't treat IQ in a vacuum. For one, high IQ can have negative things that go with it, unrelated to IQ. Other areas of strength and weakness can be more important or larger.

As such, IQ is always a data point, but in the majority of cases it's a data point that doesn't matter, that data point gets lost in a sea of noise of other factors that in some way trump it or reduce its importance.

 

[Poki]

Well, in a vacuum IQ does matter. Having a high IQ has a benefit over having a low IQ. The thing is you simply can't treat IQ in a vacuum. For one, high IQ can have negative things that go with it, unrelated to IQ. Other areas of strength and weakness can be more important or larger.

As such, IQ is always a data point, but in the majority of cases it's a data point that doesn't matter, that data point gets lost in a sea of noise of other factors that in some way trump it or reduce its importance.

Exactly

 

[Stek]

Part of figuring out what you want out of life and succeeding is having some self-awareness and setting realistic goals within the realm of your limitations. Unless you have a notably low IQ, I would think that would be fairly reasonable to achieve.

IQ can be a decent indicator but it can also be quite limiting if one puts too much stock into it.

I typically score below average-average on most of the IQ type tests but did well academically w/ minimal effort and worked my way up to an executive position.

Obviously, there are exceptions to any tendency. However, it is reasonable to assume that in the case that you had been even more intelligent, you would have been able to achieve more in less time. I do agree, though, that the knowledge of having an average or below average IQ could discourage the motivation to achieve ones goals. I'm glad to hear it didn't seem to affect you much.

No it doesn't. IQ measures your reasoning and problem solving abilities. It specifically measures the speed and the complexity of it. Has nothing at all to do with success or even possibility of success. IQ is such a small portion of success I wouldn't tie it to being successful or not.

I simplified my explanation a bit, and took a short cut to the assumed effect of having a high IQ. You are right that IQ is a measure of reasoning and problem solving abilities. But still, a person with strong reasoning and problem solving skills is more likely to achieve success in whatever that person does. Therefore, high IQ is a measurement of the potential to be successful. If, however, you do not have strong reasoning and problem solving skills, you would have to rely more on luck and coincidence, or help from others to achieve your goals. In other words, you would be more dependent on aspects outside of your control, and therefore, your potential to achieve success would be more limited.

Of course, a person with a low IQ can also be skilfull and achieve great things. But a person with a high IQ is more likely to solve problems and learn new skills faster, which is likely to give them a broader skillset to counter future problems, and will therefore have a stronger potential to reach their goals. In short, both can achieve their goals. But one is more likely to achieve their goals, than the other.

 

[Tilt]

Obviously, there are exceptions to any tendency. However, it is reasonable to assume that in the case that you had been even more intelligent, you would have been able to achieve more in less time. I do agree, though, that the knowledge of having an average or below average IQ could discourage the motivation to achieve ones goals. I'm glad to hear it didn't seem to affect you much.

I excel at reasoning and problem-solving in many areas of my life. When I do go ask for help, most of the time people don't know much more than I do and I end up schooling them a good chunk of the time. But I tend to perform rather mediocrely on aptitude tests for some reason. So, that was part of the reason why I was arguing not to put too much stock into IQ tests... even if it was purely anecdotal.

 

[wolfnara]

IQ tests? More like Ti tests.
They involve solving rules, patterns, logical hierarchy, and all the logical processes in order to figure the result that seems the most "logically correct". I would wager that those with strong Ti and decent intelligence would score high on the IQ tests. It makes no sense to claim that Feeling types score a higher IQ result. Like Ti, math (symbols) is highly abstracted logic.
;

IQ tests are also about how quickly you can process and conclude the answers, and claims to be a measure of "mental retardation" rather than intelligence itself. For some reason I am slow at everything, including practical activities. I actually got a little extra time at school during exams because teachers noticed my bad habit. I have always had a poor attention span, but somehow it is improving as I become older. My IQ score was average (technically above average...) with a score of 109. Not that impressive I know.

However, IQ may not be a measure of verbal and literal intelligence. It is quite mathematical, and although apparently I was good at problem solving questions, I have poor skills in math - but not science. But my english (/my writing) skills are not so bad. I have always felt like everyone cannot have an equal measure of artistic, mathematical and literacy talents, unless they are very fortunate. I am most talented in artistic pursuits rather than maths, but I can also recognize and learn the vocabulary and rules involved with science. But when they turn into numbers and symbols, I struggle badly.